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aim-wsc
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

beatthegmat wrote:
I looked at the 1000 RC and CR docs. It's not clear to me that these were created by ScoreTop--do you know whether that is the case?
All three 1000 series documents are produced by scoretop.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've removed the 1000 CR and 3000 RC documents from this website. These materials are untrustworthy.
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Stacey Koprince
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, guys

I know a lot of people on my company's forums are freaking out about the scoretop thing. Just wanted to point everyone to this article from BusinessWeek, discussing who does not have to worry (and who does) re: having scores cancelled.

http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/content/jun2008/bs20080627_391632.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index_news+%2B+analysis

In a nutshell, if you really didn't know what was going on, you should be fine, because you won't have any posts discussing the fact that you knew something was a live question, or written off of a live question, or whatever. (You couldn't have posted that if you really didn't know what was happening!)

Those who did know what was going on and discussed it should worry. (Of course, those who did knowingly cheat deserve to get caught.)

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks stacey. but the problem with tracking anything on the internet is that it is really really hard to prove anything. it may finally boil down to several lawsuits between candidates and GMAC - in an year in which you are applying to B-schools, you really do not want to bother about anything.

It is also not clear how the GMAC may react later - will it try to access, say beatthegmat forum, and try to swoop in on people who downloaded 1000RC/CR/SC which were hosted previously here? The article correctly mentions - "And in the 2008 GMAT Bulletin, GMAC reserves the right to cancel scores for any misconduct, including mere access to test content prior to the test, "even if a specific examinee's actual access to disclosed test content cannot be confirmed by GMAC." "
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aim-wsc
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nick_mask wrote:
thanks stacey. but the problem with tracking anything on the internet is that it is really really hard to prove anything. it may finally boil down to several lawsuits between candidates and GMAC - in an year in which you are applying to B-schools, you really do not want to bother about anything.

Well it could be if it had been some "online games forums"

I am afraid I think it's pretty easy to track anybody even on such online forums.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aim-wsc wrote:
nick_mask wrote:
thanks stacey. but the problem with tracking anything on the internet is that it is really really hard to prove anything. it may finally boil down to several lawsuits between candidates and GMAC - in an year in which you are applying to B-schools, you really do not want to bother about anything.

Well it could be if it had been some "online games forums"

I am afraid I think it's pretty easy to track anybody even on such online forums.


I agree, it is not that difficult to track down someone who has been using a particular forum. Especially if you have been using your home computer to do it.
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aim-wsc
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ha ha, dont worry nick-mask, Smile
It's safe at beatthegmat

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beat The GMAT has been in communication with GMAC and GMAC's attorneys over the past year to ensure that this community is compliant.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"And in the 2008 GMAT Bulletin, GMAC reserves the right to cancel scores for any misconduct, including mere access to test content prior to the test, "even if a specific examinee's actual access to disclosed test content cannot be confirmed by GMAC." "

Yes - but if they do that without very good reason, they will have lawsuits on their hands, and they don't want that.

Also, I know we joke about them here, but they're not actually evil. They don't want to mess up people's lives just because. They'll be tough if they really do think they can legally prove you cheated (and if they can actually prove that someone cheated, then I don't think anyone would argue that they shouldn't be tough!). But if they don't know for sure, they're not going to just start accusing people.

They are being a little bit "scare-mongering" right now, I admit - I think because they want to scare people into not doing anything remotely illegally for a long, long time.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Stacey, my interactions with GMAC have been very positive to date. They will not chase down people indiscriminately just to screw them over.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:11 pm    Post subject: time frame? Reply with quote

does any know when this 'live' discussion of questions happened? I was a VIP member last year. I found the ST forums very helpful to analyze my mistakes in various tests, but not so much the VIP question banks. The VIP math questions were decent, but the verbal questions were not so good - some even had typos in them. Does anyone know if those VIP question banks had 'live' questions mixed into them?

Also, GMAC claims that ST advertised real questions. I didnt use the website that much - but I dont remember ST advertising real GMAT questions...

thanks
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't know the answer to your question, but check out this article on BusinessWeek. It's a Q&A from GMAC.
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aim-wsc
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:39 pm    Post subject: Re: time frame? Reply with quote

m789ax wrote:
does any know when this 'live' discussion of questions happened? I was a VIP member last year. I found the ST forums very helpful to analyze my mistakes in various tests, but not so much the VIP question banks. The VIP math questions were decent, but the verbal questions were not so good - some even had typos in them. Does anyone know if those VIP question banks had 'live' questions mixed into them?

Also, GMAC claims that ST advertised real questions. I didnt use the website that much - but I dont remember ST advertising real GMAT questions...

thanks
I try to speak minimum about this matter as I am not active these days online in GMAT field.
I had never been a member of ST's premium content but I used to know a lot info about "happenings"
ST had a product called JJ: & I believe VIP members had free subscription of JJs.
There used to be JJ (jungle juice), a question bank that used to be published on a monthly basis. which used to have suspicious content.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:33 am    Post subject: Re: time frame? Reply with quote

aim-wsc wrote:
m789ax wrote:
does any know when this 'live' discussion of questions happened? I was a VIP member last year. I found the ST forums very helpful to analyze my mistakes in various tests, but not so much the VIP question banks. The VIP math questions were decent, but the verbal questions were not so good - some even had typos in them. Does anyone know if those VIP question banks had 'live' questions mixed into them?

Also, GMAC claims that ST advertised real questions. I didnt use the website that much - but I dont remember ST advertising real GMAT questions...

thanks
I try to speak minimum about this matter as I am not active these days online in GMAT field.
I had never been a member of ST's premium content but I used to know a lot info about "happenings"
ST had a product called JJ: & I believe VIP members had free subscription of JJs.
There used to be JJ (jungle juice), a question bank that used to be published on a monthly basis. which used to have suspicious content.


The JJs were prevalent before the end of 2006 (i.e 2003-2006) and that's when ST was shut down for a while. When they started in Nov 2006 they advertised their VIP section as 'questions prepared by their in house tutors' and VIP section additionally offered tutor explanations to members questions. ST had clearly mentioned that the questions were written by their tutors (though that doesnt absolve them of their acts)

The point is there would be a fair amount of people who subscribed to the site (after Nov 2006) including VIP membership for having a tutor assistance and extra 700+ level practice questions which were claimed by ST to be written by their tutors (probably without members having an idea that some of these could be live questions intentionally posted by the tutors)

I would not comment much on GMACs decision of cancelling the scores of all VIP members (intentionally or unintentionally they have committed a mistake) and since all of them who took the test had signed a declaration before taking the test (in the present scenario this gives GMAC complete authority to enforce the cancellation of scores)

However banning this class of people from retaking the test would be a very harsh move by GMAC and I hope they would consider the situation holistically before taking a decision.

For future aspirants it's a lesson tread your GMAT path very carefully

00
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for this info. GMAC doesn't appear to be pursuing a blanket punishment for subscribers, more info here: http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/blogs/mba_admissions/archives/2008/07/gmat_scandal_cl.html#more
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