Sun and Moon: Difficult one

This topic has expert replies
Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts
Posts: 96
Joined: 08 Apr 2013

by vietmoi999 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:44 am
great, Hunt

because "as" is used to compared verb, after "the same as", we normally use clause or a elliptical clause.

is that right?

can you give me an example, in which we use a noun after "the same as". Can we have this pattern?

Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts
Posts: 96
Joined: 08 Apr 2013

by vietmoi999 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:46 am
GMATGuruNY wrote:
vietmoi999 wrote:I have the same pen as your pen

is correct pattern. after "the same as" we can use a noun or a clause.

so, D is not incorrect in this point.

pls, explain , why D is wrong
Generally, as serves to compare two VERBS.
Sometimes the second verb is omitted, but its presence is still implied.

In your post above, the sentence in red is incorrect.
It conveys the following meaning:
I have the same pen as your pen [has].
The verb in brackets is omitted, but its presence is implied.
The resulting meaning is nonsensical, implying that YOUR PEN HAS the same pen as I HAVE.

Correct: I have the same pen as YOU.
Conveyed meaning: I have the same pen as you [have].

Another case:

Correct: John attends the same school as Mary.
Conveyed meaning: John attends the same school as Mary [attends].
The verb in brackets is omitted, but its presence is implied.

Incorrect: John attends the same school as Mary's.
Conveyed meaning: John attends the same school as Mary's [school attends].
The words in brackets are omitted, but their presence is implied.
The resulting meaning is nonsensical, implying that MARY'S SCHOOL ATTENDS the same school as JOHN ATTENDS.

Answer choice D in the SC above:
The Sun has the same apparent size in the sky as the Moon's.
Conveyed meaning:
The Sun has the same apparent size in the sky as the Moon's [size has].
The words in brackets are omitted, but their presence is implied.
The resulting meaning is nonsensical, implying that THE MOON'S SIZE HAS the same apparent size as THE SUN HAS.
thank you Mint Hunt. I quote to make you know my posting

Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts
Posts: 96
Joined: 08 Apr 2013

by vietmoi999 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:22 am
" as" is used to compare verbs

"the same" show that we compare nouns

so, I do not see the logical relation in the pattern

I have the same pen as you have

if the above sentence is the sentence

I have the same pen as the pen you have

then, I see it is ok.

I am confused.

Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts
Posts: 96
Joined: 08 Apr 2013

by vietmoi999 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:36 am
my pen is the same as your pen

is correct or not? pls, help

Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts
Posts: 96
Joined: 08 Apr 2013

by vietmoi999 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:27 am
So, why D is wrong?

we can use "noun's" in the latter half of the sentence when there is no "noun of " or " noun's " in the first half of the sentence. this point is justified my many sc questions in OG books.

so, "moon's" is correct

why D is wrong? pls, discuss.

Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts
Posts: 187
Joined: 13 Sep 2016
GMATGuruNY wrote:
vk_vinayak wrote:Because of the Sun, which is 400 times larger than the Moon, but also 400 times farther away from Earth, so both the Sun and the Moon have the same apparent size in the sky.

A: Because of the Sun, which is 400 times larger than the Moon, but also 400 times farther away from Earth, so both the Sun and the Moon have the same apparent size in the sky.

B. The Sun, which is 400 times larger than the Moon, is also 400 times farther away from Earth, so the Sun and the Moon have the same apparent size in the sky.

C. The Sun and the Moon have the same apparent size in the sky because the Sun, which is 400 times larger than the Moon, and also 400 times farther away from Earth.

D. Four hundred times larger than the Moon and 400 times farther away from Earth, the Sun has the same apparent size in the sky as the Moon's.

E. Four hundred times larger than the Moon and also 400 times farther away from Earth, so the Sun in the sky has the same apparent size as the Moon.


Please explain your reasoning for each options. OA later.
In A and E, so is not preceded by an independent clause. When so serves as a coordinating conjunction -- as it does here -- it must connect two independent clauses, each with its own subject and verb. Eliminate A and E.

In C, the subject that follows because -- THE SUN -- lacks a verb. Because the sun DOES WHAT EXACTLY? Eliminate C.

In D, the Moon's seems to be standing in for the Moon's SIZE, implying the following comparison:
The Sun has the same apparent size as THE MOON'S SIZE HAS.
We can't say that THE MOON'S SIZE has a SIZE. Eliminate D.

The correct answer is B.
"@GMATGuruNY"
Hello Mitch,

Isn't the usage of "and also" redundant in C?

User avatar
GMAT Instructor
Posts: 15533
Joined: 25 May 2010
Location: New York, NY
Thanked: 13060 times
Followed by:1900 members
GMAT Score:790

by GMATGuruNY » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:47 am
alanforde800Maximus wrote:"@GMATGuruNY"
Hello Mitch,

Isn't the usage of "and also" redundant in C?
X and also Y is a valid construction.
In this construction, also is used for emphasis: it serves to indicate that Y is somehow notable.
An OA in GMATPrep:
The organic food industry has organized a successful grassroots campaign -- using websites, public meetings, and also mass mailings.
Here, also serves to indicate that the use of mass mailings is somehow notable.
In short:
and also is NOT considered redundant.
Mitch Hunt
Private Tutor for the GMAT and GRE
[email protected]

If you find one of my posts helpful, please take a moment to click on the "UPVOTE" icon.

Available for tutoring in NYC and long-distance.
For more information, please email me at [email protected].
Student Review #1
Student Review #2
Student Review #3

Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts
Posts: 187
Joined: 13 Sep 2016

by alanforde800Maximus » Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:18 am
GMATGuruNY wrote:
alanforde800Maximus wrote:"@GMATGuruNY"
Hello Mitch,

Isn't the usage of "and also" redundant in C?
X and also Y is a valid construction.
In this construction, also is used for emphasis: it serves to indicate that Y is somehow notable.
An OA in GMATPrep:
The organic food industry has organized a successful grassroots campaign -- using websites, public meetings, and also mass mailings.
Here, also serves to indicate that the use of mass mailings is somehow notable.
In short:
and also is NOT considered redundant.
Thank You Mitch for clarifying my doubt.