experts help - sentence correct ?

This topic has expert replies
User avatar
Legendary Member
Posts: 1325
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:24 am
Thanked: 105 times
Followed by:14 members

experts help - sentence correct ?

by vikram4689 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:25 am
is this sentence correct. it sounds fine but grammatically seems wrong. "which" refers to "the role... ball" but when i put this replacement in sentence it seems wrong

Halle Berry played the role of Leticia Musgrove in Monster's Ball, which Queen Latifah was initially offered
Premise: If you like my post
Conclusion : Press the Thanks Button ;)

Legendary Member
Posts: 784
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:51 am
Thanked: 114 times
Followed by:12 members

by patanjali.purpose » Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:42 pm
vikram4689 wrote:is this sentence correct. it sounds fine but grammatically seems wrong. "which" refers to "the role... ball" but when i put this replacement in sentence it seems wrong

Halle Berry played the role of Leticia Musgrove in Monster's Ball, which Queen Latifah was initially offered
IMO sentence is not correct for,

1) WHICH could refer to either THE ROLE or BALL
2) WHICH clause is not properly constructed - IMO sentence should have been written as WHICH WAS INITIALLY OFFERED TO QUEEN LATIFAH. The way sentence is constructed now WHICH Clause IS NOT ABLE connect with the NOUN (either THE ROLE or BALL) - THE ROLE (BALL) QUEEN WAS OFFERED (does not make sense)

User avatar
Legendary Member
Posts: 1325
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:24 am
Thanked: 105 times
Followed by:14 members

by vikram4689 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:52 am
to focus on the problem i wrote 2 equivalent sentences below
Halle Berry played the role of Leticia Musgrove in Monster's Ball, which Queen Latifah was initially offered ==
Halle Berry played the role of Leticia Musgrove in Monster's Ball, the role of Leticia Musgrove in Monster's Ball Queen Latifah was initially offered

it seems *bold* is acting as adjective to *underlined* part but grammatically the construction seems incorrect

experts help !!
Premise: If you like my post
Conclusion : Press the Thanks Button ;)

User avatar
GMAT Instructor
Posts: 1052
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 1:30 am
Thanked: 335 times
Followed by:98 members

by Patrick_GMATFix » Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:13 am
The sentence is fine vikram.

"which" and other relative pronouns can refer to the noun immediately before or to the phrase immediately before the comma. Both of the following sentences are correct:

The roof of the gingerbread house, which is located at 123 My Street, leaks every time it rains.

The roof of the gingerbread house, which was replaced only 3 years ago, leaks every time it rains.

Whether "which" refers to the noun or to the entire phrase that precedes it is determined by the intended meaning. Think about which story the author is trying to tell.

In your example, it doesn't make as much sense to mean that the movie was offered to Queen Latifah as it does to mean that the role was offered to Queen Latifah. Thus "which" is referring to the role.

What "which" cannot do is refer to a noun or phrase that is on the other side of a verb. For instance, the following is problematic: "This raw deal cost me a fortune, which was supposed to be completed in 6 months but instead took 6 years". In this case, which cannot refer to the deal.

"which" is also a poor way to modify an action. For instance the following sentence is problematic: "All the employees quit on the same day, which led to our bankruptcy." In this case, an -ing ("leading to our bankruptcy") or a noun ("a catastrophe which led to our bankruptcy") are better suited.
  • Ask me about tutoring.

User avatar
Legendary Member
Posts: 1325
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:24 am
Thanked: 105 times
Followed by:14 members

by vikram4689 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:39 pm
thanks patrick for reply, but my question is not whether "which" is correctly referring to "role". my question is (in blue)
Halle Berry played the role of Leticia Musgrove in Monster's Ball, the role of Leticia Musgrove in Monster's Ball Queen Latifah was initially offered

in above sentence, it seems *bold* part is acting as adjective to *underlined* part but grammatically this construction seems incorrect as 2 nouns are adjacent without any verb
Premise: If you like my post
Conclusion : Press the Thanks Button ;)

User avatar
Legendary Member
Posts: 1325
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:24 am
Thanked: 105 times
Followed by:14 members

by vikram4689 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:57 pm
experts can you please help
Premise: If you like my post
Conclusion : Press the Thanks Button ;)

User avatar
Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts
Posts: 172
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:35 am
Thanked: 3 times
Followed by:1 members
GMAT Score:610

by karthikgmat » Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:30 am
A noun modifier need not always touch noun but in this case the sentence is incorrect.

this post will help you.

https://gmatclub.com/forum/noun-modifier ... 35868.html

User avatar
Legendary Member
Posts: 1325
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:24 am
Thanked: 105 times
Followed by:14 members

by vikram4689 » Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:45 am
karthikgmat wrote:A noun modifier need not always touch noun but in this case the sentence is incorrect.

this post will help you.

https://gmatclub.com/forum/noun-modifier ... 35868.html
i am asking something else, did you read https://www.beatthegmat.com/experts-help ... tml#492941
Premise: If you like my post
Conclusion : Press the Thanks Button ;)

User avatar
GMAT Instructor
Posts: 1031
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:23 pm
Location: Malibu, CA
Thanked: 716 times
Followed by:255 members
GMAT Score:750

by Brian@VeritasPrep » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:06 am
Hey Vikram,

Couple things here:

1) The great news on the GMAT is that you don't have to make this decision in a vacuum...there will be answer choices! So the test will help direct you to decision points. Personally, I don't love the way that which clause is set up, but if there isn't a better option I then get to determine whether I could live with it.

2) Check out this decision to see which you like:

Halle Berry played the role of Leticia Musgrove in Monster's Ball, which Queen Latifah was initially offered.

Halle Berry played the role of Leticia Musgrove in Monster's Ball, which was initially offered to Queen Latifah.

It has to be the second one, right?

And here's the reason - in this clause "which" takes the role of the subject (replacing "the role"). And with that, then you're really saying:

The role Queen Latifah was originally offered.

Which really needs a "that" to separate subject and object (The role that Queen Latifah was originally offered).



Hope that helps!
Brian Galvin
GMAT Instructor
Chief Academic Officer
Veritas Prep

Looking for GMAT practice questions? Try out the Veritas Prep Question Bank. Learn More.

User avatar
Legendary Member
Posts: 1325
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:24 am
Thanked: 105 times
Followed by:14 members

by vikram4689 » Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:28 am
Brian@VeritasPrep wrote:Hey Vikram,

Couple things here:

1) The great news on the GMAT is that you don't have to make this decision in a vacuum...there will be answer choices! So the test will help direct you to decision points. Personally, I don't love the way that which clause is set up, but if there isn't a better option I then get to determine whether I could live with it.

2) Check out this decision to see which you like:

Halle Berry played the role of Leticia Musgrove in Monster's Ball, which Queen Latifah was initially offered.

Halle Berry played the role of Leticia Musgrove in Monster's Ball, which was initially offered to Queen Latifah.

It has to be the second one, right?

And here's the reason - in this clause "which" takes the role of the subject (replacing "the role"). And with that, then you're really saying:

The role Queen Latifah was originally offered.

Which really needs a "that" to separate subject and object (The role that Queen Latifah was originally offered).



Hope that helps!
Wow !!!, That was exact verbatim of what i had in mind.
One question left to be answered is - since we CANNOT omit "that", shouldn't that sentence be declared as incorrect on the basis of violating grammer rules
Premise: If you like my post
Conclusion : Press the Thanks Button ;)

User avatar
Legendary Member
Posts: 1325
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:24 am
Thanked: 105 times
Followed by:14 members

by vikram4689 » Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:27 pm
brian, please reply
Premise: If you like my post
Conclusion : Press the Thanks Button ;)