Knewton Challenge, 1/19/11 (Stone Tablets)

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by Adam@Knewton » Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:56 pm
Thanks for participating, everybody! Some really interesting arguments/explanations here. The correct answer, in fact, is E, as a few of you got. Now as to the prize of who gave the best explanation (with the correct answer):

And the winner is ... fitzgerald23!

Congrats on winning free access to the BTG Practice Questions. Fiztgerald's explanation is quoted below for everyone else to read. Particularly important, for those of you who picked (D), is his explanation of that wrong answer choice, which does fill in a piece of the argument, but doesn't actually strengthen the particular conclusion we're interested in strengthening here: that the Egyptians did seem to actually use this ratio in "every symbol on their tablets."

Thanks again to everyone who answered; stay tuned tomorrow at 9am for the next Knewton Verbal Challenge question, and see if you can post the best explanation and be a winner!
fitzgerald23 wrote:Lets give this a try. Very hard question.

I would break down the passage into the following points:

1. Archaeologists believe that some Egyptian stone tablets were purposely designed with a 1.618 ratio.
2. They believe every symbol was constructed with that ratio to preserve it
3. Mathematicians disagree that the Egyptians knew of this ratio.

We want to find a way to strengthen the point that the Egyptians knew of the ratio.

A. Incorrect. What the Greek mathematicians did with old artifacts has nothing to do with Egyptians discovering it.

B. Incorrect. This tells us that there is nobody discovered who came before the Egyptians who used the ratio, but it does not prove that the Egyptians did or did not purposely use it. We need to know what happened in the Egyptian era.

C. Incorrect. Just because the tablet was scribed by a mathematician it does not tell us anything about the tablet. If the tablet symbols had a 2:1 ratio then we would be weakening the Archaeologists claim since the mathematician would be signing off on a totally different ratio.

D. Incorrect. Again this answer choice gives us no pertinent information about how the tablet is designed. It does further validate that all the items in the excavation site came from the same people, but that is not what we are concerned with here. We want to know how to prove that the limestone uses the ratio in some manner not that it is made of the same material as other items in the site.

E. Correct. This is the only selection that tells us that not just some stone tablets had what appeared to be the ratio. This tells us that we now have another tablet from that era of a different material that uses the 1.618 ratio on all the symbols of the tablet, which reinforced the archaeologists point that the Egyptians did use this ratio for their symbols before the Greeks did years later.
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by mundasingh123 » Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:42 pm
E. Correct. This is the only selection that tells us that not just some stone tablets had what appeared to be the ratio. This tells us that we now have another tablet from that era of a different material that uses the 1.618 ratio on all the symbols of the tablet, which reinforced the archaeologists point that the Egyptians did use this ratio for their symbols before the Greeks did years later.E.
But Fitzgerald23 is assuming that all the symbols conformed to the Golden Ratio whereas the Answer Choice says only the First Letter followed the Golden Ratio 1.618.
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by gmat1011 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:44 am
Pretty tough. I would say this question broadly follows the logic of this question that came across in the OG:

The spacing of the four holes on a fragment of a bone flute excavated at a Neanderthal campsite is just what is required to play the third through sixth notes of the diatonic scale-the seven-note musical scale used in much of Western music since the Renaissance. Musicologists therefore hypothesize that the diatonic musical scale was developed and used thousands of years before it was adopted by Western musicians.

Which of the following, if true, most strongly supports the hypothesis?

A. Bone flutes were probably the only musical instrument made by Neanderthals.
B. No musical instrument that is known to have used a diatomic scale is of an earlier date than the flute found at the Neanderthal campsite.
C. The flute was made from a cave-bear bone and the campsite at which the flute fragment was excavated was in a cave that also contained skeletal remains of cave bears.
D. Flutes are the simplest wind instrument that can be constructed to allow playing a diatonic scale.
E. The cave-bear leg bone used to make the Neanderthal flute would have been long enough to make a flute capable of playing a complete diatonic scale.

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by mundasingh123 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:09 am
gmat1011 wrote:Pretty tough. I would say this question broadly follows the logic of this question that came across in the OG:

The spacing of the four holes on a fragment of a bone flute excavated at a Neanderthal campsite is just what is required to play the third through sixth notes of the diatonic scale-the seven-note musical scale used in much of Western music since the Renaissance. Musicologists therefore hypothesize that the diatonic musical scale was developed and used thousands of years before it was adopted by Western musicians.

Which of the following, if true, most strongly supports the hypothesis?

A. Bone flutes were probably the only musical instrument made by Neanderthals.
B. No musical instrument that is known to have used a diatomic scale is of an earlier date than the flute found at the Neanderthal campsite.
C. The flute was made from a cave-bear bone and the campsite at which the flute fragment was excavated was in a cave that also contained skeletal remains of cave bears.
D. Flutes are the simplest wind instrument that can be
What is the answer to this question .Whats the OA and OE Please
constructed to allow playing a diatonic scale.
E. The cave-bear leg bone used to make the Neanderthal flute would have been long enough to make a flute capable of playing a complete diatonic scale.

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by mundasingh123 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:10 am
Whats the OA and OE ?

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by mundasingh123 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:52 am
Adam,Could You please post Your explanation of the answer to the Knewton challenge .I think this would really hep all who failed to get the right answer.

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by arora007 » Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:26 am
Oh boy.... oh boy... I chose D. OA is E.... That was really tough!!
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by tendee » Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:45 am
I think it should be B.

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by Adam@Knewton » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:15 am
Some people have asked for an official explanation, so here it is:

Forget about the mathematicians' argument. This is a Strengthener question, so focus on the archeologists' argument (that we are trying to strengthen) and their evidence. They found some Egyptian tablets. Apparently the tablets exhibit this Golden Ratio. They claim that, therefore, the Egyptians must have discovered the Golden Ratio. The only way the part about refuting the mathematicians comes into play is that it's important to prove that the Egyptians did it first -- but, since the Egyptians predate the Greeks about whom the mathematicians are talking, all we really have to prove is that the Egyptians did, in fact, intentionally make these tablets and symbols according to the Golden Ratio. Thus, we need somehow to connect these tablets we've found to the Golden Ratio.

Only choice (E) actually makes this connection -- if you prefer, strengthens the Assumption that "The tablets and symbols were intentionally designed with the Golden Ratio." Notice that it doesn't prove the Argument, but it doesn't have to; it merely makes the Central Assumption more likely to be true.

(D), the most popular wrong answer choice here, does not connect anything to the Golden Ratio. It does strengthen an assumption that these tablets were in fact made by the Egyptians because they're of a common material, but this was never really in question, nor does it help the argument that they, in fact, discovered the Golden Ratio.

By focusing on 1) the Conclusion we're trying to strengthen (Egyptians discovered Golden Ratio first), 2) the Evidence used to support this claim (some tablets we found), and 3) the missing link (Assumption) between them (these tablets/sybmols were, in fact, made in the Golden Ratio), we can accurately predict the answer.

Also, note that gmat1011 is absolutely correct in finding his similar OG question. That question has the same logic and a similar answer, if you want to give it a try.
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by mundasingh123 » Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:42 pm
Option D talks about exact cut of the Limestone rock and i thought that cyt refers to design .This led me to believe that A lot of other artifacts that have the same design , have been discovered
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by Adam@Knewton » Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:45 pm
mundasingh123 wrote:Option D talks about exact cut of the Limestone rock and i thought that cut refers to design .This led me to believe that A lot of other artifacts that have the same design , have been discovered
Ah. I think that is a reasonable mistake. This is the line in question:
Choice (D) wrote:"...made from the exact cut of rare limestone rock as was used to construct the tablet."
I interpreted this as meaning (and I believe this is what was meant by the question writers): "made out of the same piece of rock that the tablet was made out of, a piece that was rare."

I also want to reassert why (E) is so correct, so much so that we shouldn't be tempted by (D) because we already have the right answer. As a Strengthener, it doesn't have to prove that the Egyptians discovered the Golden Ratio first, only make it more likely that the Assumption in this argument's logical reasoning is true. By showing that a symbol on the tablet was also designed in this ratio, it Strengthens this Argument, unequivocally, and must be the right answer.
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by parvind_15 » Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:34 pm
IMO it is [A]

(A) Some Greek mathematicians measured ancient artifacts, like the stone tablet found, to determine whether their predecessors had discovered the ratio.

It says some Greek Mathematicians. Though it doesnt say who or when, it could include those guys who discovered it 100 years later than the Egyptians. This also coincides with the conclusion that Greeks also discovered Golden ratio. So it weakens the conclusion that Greeks were the first.

(D) The burial site from which the tablet was found contained many objects that were made from the exact cut of rare limestone rock that was used to construct the tablet.
It just says that the material matches (same cut of lime rock) but does not say anything about the Golden ration in the "many objects" made out of the cut.

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by ArunangsuSahu » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:25 am
(E) shows the ratio was maintained everywhere

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by tanviet » Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:51 am
hard, of course. But I want to discuss another thing.

for most CR questions, the assumption based question, we are advised to predict assumptions and the answer before going to answer choices.

we can not make predictions with this question. Am I right?

method of attacking is important and I want to discuss it first.