Holstein Cows

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by shailendra.sharma » Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:07 am
Here is my analysis ---

The sentence construction is very similar to IF SOME-ACTION THEN GENERAL-OUTCOME (with certainty) - with IF and THEN words omitted. In this case for Y either Simple Present tense shall be used or a future tense shall be used.

A. providing them with high-energy feed, and milking them regularly, Holstein cows
are producing


<=== This is wrong as Present Progressive sentence correction does not make sense to specify a general outcome of certain action. @Ron, somehow I am not convinced with rejecting this option based on comma - I think bigger issue, in my opinion, is how to specify a GENERAL OUTCOME. Please correct me.

B. providing them with high-energy feed, and milked regularly, the Holstein cow
produces


<=== There are multiple mistakes in this sentence (1) providing and milked are not parallel (2) Holstein cow is singular so it does not go with pronoun them.

C. provided with high-energy feed, and milking them regularly, Holstein cows are
producing


<=== Again multiple mistakes here (1) provided and milking are not parallel (2) Present Progressive tense is not appropriate for a GENERAL OUTCOME.

D. provided with high-energy feed, and milked regularly, the Holstein cow produces

<=== While this construction could have been right, but pronoun them does not match Holstein cows.

E. provided with high-energy feed, and milked regularly, Holstein cows will produce

<=== This particular option is without any grammatical mistakes. Though as Ron said - it would have been good to make the verb phrase parallel, rather than making cool parallel with obtrusive noun phrase "provided with" and "milked...". I think it's more of a style issue as Ron said.

@Ron, I would like to learn in what cases such past-participle based noun phrases are better stylistically. I am sure there are tons of learning here.

Thanks in advance.

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by lunarpower » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:20 am
<=== This is wrong as Present Progressive sentence correction does not make sense to specify a general outcome of certain action. @Ron, somehow I am not convinced with rejecting this option based on comma - I think bigger issue, in my opinion, is how to specify a GENERAL OUTCOME. Please correct me.
i don't understand what you are asking here.

so, here's a fuller discussion of that answer choice.
basically, the problem with that choice is that you can interpret it in two ways - and both are wrong.

* you could interpret it as a list of three parallel things (= three conditions that need to be maintained).
that's the correct interpretation meaning-wise, but it's not parallel - the -INGs aren't parallel to "cool".

* you could interpret it as a modifier, but then you've got two issues:
1/ you can't use a comma to separate "x and y";
2/ this doesn't make any sense as a modifier, because the way in which the cows are fed and milked doesn't describe, in any sensible way, the idea of keeping them cool.

so, with this choice you lose either way.
@Ron, I would like to learn in what cases such past-participle based noun phrases are better stylistically. I am sure there are tons of learning here.
"stylistic" considerations are not tested on this exam; every wrong answer will have objectively incorrect grammar, a nonsense meaning, or both.
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

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by shailendra.sharma » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:23 am
lunarpower wrote:
<=== This is wrong as Present Progressive sentence correction does not make sense to specify a general outcome of certain action. @Ron, somehow I am not convinced with rejecting this option based on comma - I think bigger issue, in my opinion, is how to specify a GENERAL OUTCOME. Please correct me.
i don't understand what you are asking here.

so, here's a fuller discussion of that answer choice.
basically, the problem with that choice is that you can interpret it in two ways - and both are wrong.

* you could interpret it as a list of three parallel things (= three conditions that need to be maintained).
that's the correct interpretation meaning-wise, but it's not parallel - the -INGs aren't parallel to "cool".

* you could interpret it as a modifier, but then you've got two issues:
1/ you can't use a comma to separate "x and y";
2/ this doesn't make any sense as a modifier, because the way in which the cows are fed and milked doesn't describe, in any sensible way, the idea of keeping them cool.

so, with this choice you lose either way.
Let me rephrase - my understanding is - author is specifying a general outcome about cows will produce higher milk gallon if they are taken care. Answer choice A mentions such outcome in Present Progressive tense that is, "cows are producing" -- is it okay to say such outcomes in present progressive.
lunarpower wrote:
@Ron, I would like to learn in what cases such past-participle based noun phrases are better stylistically. I am sure there are tons of learning here.
"stylistic" considerations are not tested on this exam; every wrong answer will have objectively incorrect grammar, a nonsense meaning, or both.
well, then why did you mention below in one of the earlier comment ==> if on another question you would have given answer choice (e) and another version as you mentioned - what would have been the reasons you would have chosen your version ?
ugly. very ugly. but (e) is the least ugly of the bunch, so it wins the proverbial pageant.
i would much prefer "keep them cool, provide them with..., and milk them...", but that isn't there, of course.

To Summarize -- I am not too much worried about answer choice here, but want to take some general takeaways that can be applied to wider set of problems.

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by lunarpower » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:53 pm
shailendra.sharma wrote:Let me rephrase - my understanding is - author is specifying a general outcome about cows will produce higher milk gallon if they are taken care. Answer choice A mentions such outcome in Present Progressive tense that is, "cows are producing" -- is it okay to say such outcomes in present progressive.
ah, i see what you mean. no, you don't write "are VERBing", unless the action of VERBing is actually happening in the present, i.e., as the narrator of the sentence speaks.

on the other hand, watch out, since there are plenty of adjectives that have the same form - sometimes even the same word.
e.g.,
The Tigers are stunning the Bulldogs, 28 to 7. --> here, "are stunning" is a verb, so this sentence would only make sense if written during the game, e.g., on a live blog.
but
Your wife is stunning when she gets dressed up. --> here, "stunning" is an adjective, so this is an appropriate form for a general observation (the only verb here is "is", which is in the present.)

i don't know the names of these tenses ("present progressive" and so on), so that may account for why i didn't notice this part of the question before. the other part may be the lack of a question mark, as in your query that i quoted above. (i almost didn't notice that "is it okay to ..." was actually a question, because it didn't end with "?".)
well, then why did you mention below in one of the earlier comment ==> if on another question you would have given answer choice (e) and another version as you mentioned - what would have been the reasons you would have chosen your version ?
see, that's the point - they wouldn't give you a choice between (e) and my new version, because neither of them is actually wrong.

my version is better written, but the point is that they don't test that sort of thing (and won't, ever, because it would be manifestly unfair to test non-native speakers of english on that sort of thing).
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

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by sahilchaudhary » Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:03 am
I still don't understand it completely.
Is are + ing form incorrect everywhere?
lunarpower wrote:ugly, ugly, ugly.
ugly.

heh. it looks like choice (a) is an "indian trap"
seriously, not a joke.
if there is a single biggest issue in the grammar of second-language english speakers who happen to hail from india or pakistan, that issue is the drastic overuse of the "are ...ing" construction. (native speakers of english will recognize "are producing" at once as awkward.)

another problem with part (a) is the modifier. although "providing... and milking..." is a grammatically acceptable modifier, it doesn't make any sense in context, since these are not two things that farmers do WHILE or AS A CONSEQUENCE OF keeping the cows cool. (if you're going to use comma + -ing, then one of these two should hold.)
see #124 (og 12th edition) or #127 (og 11th edition), correct answer, for a sentence in which such a modifier actually does make sense.

the official answer, (e), is tricky indeed.

you have to parse it as follows:
you KEEP THE COWS cool
you KEEP THE COWS provided with...
and you KEEP THE COWS milked regularly

ugly. very ugly. but (e) is the least ugly of the bunch, so it wins the proverbial pageant.
i would much prefer "keep them cool, provide them with..., and milk them...", but that isn't there, of course.

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note that you also can't say "THE holstein cows", unless you're referencing a particular, specific, known group of holstein cows (something that you clearly aren't doing). since you're talking about holstein cows in general, you don't use the article "the".
this is another thing well known, totally subconsciously, to native speakers of english; it's hard-won wisdom for non-native speakers.
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by raj44 » Fri May 02, 2014 4:28 am
Hi,

Can someone please explain why are...ing is wrong and how can it be corrected?

for eg:- Is the foll sentence wrong?

1. They are working in the factory (I know "they" has no antecedent; please ignore the pronoun error )

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by [email protected] » Tue Oct 04, 2016 6:28 am
For the farmer who takes care to keep them cool, providing them with high-energy feed, and milking them regularly, Holstein cows are producing an average of 2,275 gallons of milk each per year.

A. providing them with high-energy feed, and milking them regularly, Holstein cows are producing - Comma + providing is incorrect because it modifies the previous clause explaining how the farmers keeps them cool. This is illogical. Since, we are stating a genaralisation, we need present tense and not present continuous.
B. providing them with high-energy feed, and milked regularly, the Holstein cow produces - Same verbing issue. Parallelism issue between providing and milked. Also, usage of the. Plus Pronoun antecedent disagreement. The singular cow doesn't agree with plural them.
C. provided with high-energy feed, and milking them regularly, Holstein cows are producing - Parallelism issue, present continuous issue.
D. provided with high-energy feed, and milked regularly, the Holstein cow produces - The issue, Pronoun antecedent disagreement
E. provided with high-energy feed, and milked regularly, Holstein cows will produce - Correct