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Can a noun have two modifiers, both preceding and succeding

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Can a noun have two modifiers, both preceding and succeding

by gauravprashar17 » Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:00 pm
2. Greatly influenced by the Protestant missionary Samuel Kirkland, the Oneida was the only one of the five-nation Iroquois League who sided with the colonists during the American Revolution.
A. was the only one of the five-nation Iroquois League who sided
B. was alone of the five-nation Iroquois League when they sided
C. alone among the five nations of the Iroquois League sided
D. were the only ones out of the five nations of the Iroquois League in siding
E. only of the five-nation Iroquois League had sided

Here i assume , the oneida is singular(correct me if i am wrong!). So Option A, had it contained which instead of who should be correct?(or can we use who as well??)
Also "was the only one" sounds redundant(Doesn't it?).Could we change it to "was the only of the"?

Option B looks incorrect because of "when" that seems to alter the meaning. D and E are incorrect as well.
Going to option C , this contains a noun that has two modifiers one before it and then after it. Is it OK?(I just thought this sounds awkward).
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by David@GMATPrepNow » Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:30 am
Hi gauravprahsar17,

You are correct that Oneida is singular. In the context of this question, it is important to also realize that Oneida refers to a nation, or group, of PEOPLE. It's important because a group of people usually requires the use of "who" rather than "which." As a general rule of thumb, "which" is for things/objects, and "who" for people ("that" can be for both).

This means that answer A cannot be eliminated because it uses "who." Let's leave A for now, and look at the other answers.

Answer B can be eliminated because it uses "alone" incorrectly. It's true that the Oneida group was alone, i.e. by itself, but it is not the best word choice, and certainly not better than "the only one of" (answer A) or even "alone among the" (answer C).

Answer C can be eliminated because it introduces a sub-clause without any commas to separate it from the rest of the sentence. The sub-clause is in red, with proper commas added, below:

Greatly influenced by the Protestant missionary Samuel Kirkland, the Oneida, alone among the five nations of the Iroquois League, sided with the colonists during the American Revolution.

Answer D can be eliminated because it uses a plural verb form "were" instead of the correct singular verb form "was." The singular verb form is needed because it must match the singular noun, Oneida. The Oneida is ONE group of people.

Answer E can be eliminated because it incorrectly uses "only of."

That leaves of with Answer A - the correct answer!
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by bubbliiiiiiii » Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:37 am
David@GMATPrepNow wrote:Hi gauravprahsar17,

You are correct that Oneida is singular. In the context of this question, it is important to also realize that Oneida refers to a nation, or group, of PEOPLE. It's important because a group of people usually requires the use of "who" rather than "which." As a general rule of thumb, "which" is for things/objects, and "who" for people ("that" can be for both).

This means that answer A cannot be eliminated because it uses "who." Let's leave A for now, and look at the other answers.

That leaves of with Answer A - the correct answer!
Because who/which modifies the immediately preceding noun, doesn't 'who' in the sentence supposed to modify Oneida instead of Iroquois League?

Is 'who' used even for group of people? I was under impression that 'which' is more appropriate. Can you please shed some light here?
Regards,

Pranay
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by David@GMATPrepNow » Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:27 am
bubbliiiiiiii wrote:
Is 'who' used even for group of people? I was under impression that 'which' is more appropriate. Can you please shed some light here?
You're right, bubbliiiiiiii. "Who" refers to the Oneida, which is the name of a group of people - a North American Indian tribe.

The short answer to your question is YES, "who" can be used when referring to a group. In fact, if the group is a group of people, and the context of the sentence is the action of people, then you MUST use "who." Here is our example:

The Oneida was the only one of the five-nation Iroquois League who sided with the colonists.

As noted earlier in the thread, "who" is used for people (and in particular when referring to a collective proper noun like Oneida) who are clearly acting as a group of individuals (making decisions, having relationships, acting in certain ways, etc.). The context of the sentence is that the group is made up of PEOPLE who are acting as people. <--- Did you notice the use of "who" in this sentence?

Okay, now it gets tricky...

Sometimes, you can have a sentence that refers to a group of people where it is better to use "which," because the context of the sentence focusses on the group as a non-personal collection, rather than individual people. Here is an example:

I was ashamed at the number of bystanders which formed around the scene of the car crash.

In this sentence, we use "which" instead of "who" even though the group of bystanders is made up of people. We use "which" because the context of this sentence is a dissatisfaction with the number (it's either too big, or too small, we're not told which). People are involved, but the group of people is referred to as an object that the author is ashamed of. The focus is on the group of people, not the people themselves.

Use "who" when you are referring to a group of PEOPLE, and specifically when you are referring to them as people, rather than objects.

Watch out for sentences that refer to groups of animals. Regardless of your personal feelings about the relationship between humans and animals, strictly speaking, animals are not people, so groups of animals should never be referred to using "who." This rule is often ignored in stories with talking animals, or where the author gives us insight into what an animal is thinking. Even though this probably won't come up on the GMAT, I mention it because you're obviously interested in answering the verbal questions correctly, and so you're paying extra attention to language, and might notice the incorrect use of who and which when reading elsewhere.
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by GMATGuruNY » Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:59 pm
gauravprashar17 wrote:Greatly influenced by the Protestant missionary Samuel Kirkland, the Oneida was the only one of the five-nation Iroquois League who sided with the colonists during the American Revolution.
A. was the only one of the five-nation Iroquois League who sided
B. was alone of the five-nation Iroquois League when they sided
C. alone among the five nations of the Iroquois League sided
D. were the only ones out of the five nations of the Iroquois League in siding
E. only of the five-nation Iroquois League had sided
In the SC above, the Oneida is considered a PLURAL subject.
All of the following are correct:
The British ARE coming.
The French ARE coming.
The Spanish ARE coming.
The Oneida ARE coming.

In A and B, was (singular) does not agree with the Oneida (plural).
Eliminate A and B.

D: the Oenida were the only ones...in siding with the colonists.
Conveyed meaning:
IN the process of SIDING with the colonists, the Oenida were the only ones.
The only ones who did WHAT?
Since the conveyed meaning is incomplete, eliminate D.

E: the Oenida only of the five-nation Iroquois League
This meaning is nonsensical.
Eliminate E.

The correct answer is C.

Note that this SC is from GMAT Prep and that the OA Is C.
David@GMATPrepNow wrote: Answer C can be eliminated because it introduces a sub-clause without any commas to separate it from the rest of the sentence. The sub-clause is in red, with proper commas added, below:

Greatly influenced by the Protestant missionary Samuel Kirkland, the Oneida, alone among the five nations of the Iroquois League, sided with the colonists during the American Revolution.


The portion in red is a modifier, not a clause.
A clause must contain a subject and a verb; the portion in red has neither.

OA: The Oneida alone among the five nations of the Iroquois League sided with the colonists.
Here, alone serves to modify sided, indicated HOW the Oneida SIDED with the colonists:
HOW did the Oneida SIDE with the colonists?
The Oneida ALONE SIDED with the colonists.

Since the entire modifying phrase (alone among the five nations of the Iroquois League) serves to express HOW the Oneida SIDED with the colonists, it is essential to the meaning of the sentence and thus should NOT be set off by commas.
David@GMATPrepNow wrote: Answer D can be eliminated because it uses a plural verb form "were" instead of the correct singular verb form "was." The singular verb form is needed because it must match the singular noun, Oneida. The Oneida is ONE group of people.
This is incorrect.
As noted above, the Oneida -- like the British, the French, and the Spanish -- are considered a PLURAL subject.
Last edited by GMATGuruNY on Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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by David@GMATPrepNow » Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:28 pm
I've reviewed Mitch's post and I think he is right, in this case "the Oneida" is employed as a plural subject. Thanks for your perspective, Mitch, much appreciated!
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by gauravprashar17 » Sat Aug 09, 2014 4:15 am
But if one says that India is one of the five nations in the BRICS.

here India is singular. Please someone suggest on the oneida here(singular or plural?)
also i guess "who" in option A makes it incorrect. Had there been "which", option A should be correct?

Or who also could be correct as it denotes a group of people(the oneidans)?

Also suggest which one is correct?
"One of the five nation" or "one of the five nations"?
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by David@GMATPrepNow » Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:35 am
Hi gauravprashar17,

You bring up a good question. The reason that "India" is singular in "India is one of the five nations in the BRIC" is that it is referring to the country, which is singular. There is one country, India. If we refer to the people of that country, "Indians," then the verb is plural; There are 1.1 billion Indians.

You are correct that "who" refers to the Oneida as a people. One person who is of the Oneida tribe should be referred to using "who," just as many people who are of the Oneida tribe should also be referred to using "who." It is the fact that they are people that matters.

"The British are coming" example that Mitch used is correct, because it refers to many individual people from Britain. Even though there are many, we still use "who" instead of "which." For example:

The British, who are very heavily armed, are coming. <--- correct
The British, which are very heavily armed, are coming. <--- NOT correct

Using the people of India as an example, we use "which" to refer to India the country, but "who" to refer to one Indian person, or many Indian people.

The last question you asked was about making "nation" plural or not. YES, it should be plural: "One of the five nations." This is because "one of" refers to a group of more than one thing. In this case, it is one of five nations. Here is a different example:

"Breakfast is one of my favourite meals of the day."

In this example, "meals" is plural because breakfast is one of a number of things. It is possible to express this sentence using a singular form of the word:

"Breakfast is my favourite meal of the day." In this example, breakfast is not one of many things, it is simply one thing, namely the author's favourite meal.

I hope this helps!
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