GMAT Strategy

Hey Guys,

Just a quick question, I just did a Manhattan Prep CAT and scored much lower then I thought. When I first did the GMAT exam I got 500, after some more studying I got 560 on Veritas CAT. Which seemed very close to what I expected. Now after feeling I have a much though understanding of concepts and more confident I really felt I could easily do over 600. However according to my result of Manhattan Prep CAT I did worse! I don't want to let that discourage me but I wanted to know others opinion and if they have already taken it? Seems like the algorithm is not very sophisticated perhaps? thx

Hi Rich,

Thanks for your response. Here are my results

Actual GMAT:2014 500 Q31 V27
Veritas: 2015 560 Q37 V31
Manhattan Prep: 2016 540 Q35 V30

I agree with you that a 560-540 is well within a reasonable range but I guess what Im trying to say is that after almost of year of in depth studying and a much greater understanding of concepts I was shocked to see that not only did I not improve but I regressed. Even for arguments sake lets say the grades were identical, I still would be shocked. No improvement at all? However you do raise a good point and I think a big problem is my timing and pacing. On my Manhattan prep exam I didn't finish each section on time, so the last 3-4 questions on each section were pure guesses and another 2-3 were done under extreme pressure. Consequently I got the last 3 Q questions all wrong. There were approx 4-5 questions that I took 4-5 mins on that and I think I need to be more strategic on which questions to bail on? I might be wrong but I think according to the attached algorithm it wold have been better for me to make 3-4 guesses spread out within the exam (if necessary) rather then wait till the end and guess all 3-4 and get them all wrong.

Hi Rich,

Well to answer your questions, Im trying to be realistic and honest with myself. Im aiming in the 630-670 range. Im perhaps somewhat of a contrarian here but I don't really believe in self imposing a time limit. Im more objective orientated which is 630-670. Having said that just to let you know on my situation, Im currently not working but I am searching for employment. In an ideal world I would finish all GMAT objectives before I start a new job which would mean at least 1 month and could be up to, well who knows. Starting a new job involves a lot of pressure, stress and learning so thats the reason Id prefer finishing things beforehand. Again its not sunk in stone, if it takes me 1 year to get me to my objective so be it. However I really don't think I need that much more time. You may be on to something when you say I don't necessarily need to re-learn all the material again. It might just be a problem of better understanding/uncovering what the GMAT is asking and better time management skills.

One interesting detail I will let you know is interestingly enough with Magoosh in the V section my strength was in CR my weakness was in RC. However as per my last CAT I did poorly on CR and well on RC. I did find the the Magoosh CR question easier then the CAT and I did find the Magoosh RC much harder then the CAT. Complete opposite.

Finally I think I will periodically do CATs more often but from the same source so I can better gauge my improvement.

Thanks for any suggestion or input Rich

Regards

Hi Prada.

For starters, Manhattan Prep practice tests are known for generating scores a bit below those generated by either Veritas tests or by official tests. So there is a significant probability that you have made some progress via the preparation that you have done, and that had you taken an official practice test rather than a Manhattan Prep practice test you would have scored higher.

Next, as has been discussed, your having taken only two practice tests during all that time you have been preparing seems off. Beyond being a way to learn how to handle the test itself, taking practice tests tends to be a key component of people's preparation in multiple ways, ways including providing insight into what the people need to work in order to hit their score goals.

That brings up another point.

When you talk about preparing, you talk about things like "learning the material" and "understanding the concepts", and saying those things does not really describe what you need to do in order to score high on the GMAT.

The GMAT is a game, and "the material" and "the concepts" are merely components of the game. It's almost as if you wanted to learn to win at poker or chess, and so you read the rule book for a year. Hey, knowing the concepts is great, but that is just the beginning.

Going forward you need to see the test as a game that you need to get better at, and your being objective oriented is JUST RIGHT.

Probably your best next step would be to go over that Manhattan test that you took and see what you needed to do better in order to score higher. You could use Manhattan's analytics to get a sense of what topics you know best and which ones you whiffed and then get to work doing what YOU SPECIFICALLY need to do in order to hit your score goal.

In other words, you don't have to "go over the material". You are already familiar with most of the ideas that are used as components of GMAT questions. Rather you need to learn what you need to learn in order to get more right answers.

For instance, if on that test you got only half of the geometry questions right, then you could close in on your score goal by getting better at handling geometry questions. Each right answer is roughly worth 10 points. So if you get to the point where you can expect to get two more right answers to geometry questions, in a very rough sense you will have gotten 20 points closer to your goal. To achieve that increase you could go over the geometry questions that you missed, see what you needed to be better at in order to get them right, learn about whatever that is, and do geometry practice questions, 20, 30, or 50 of them, whatever it takes for you to get good enough at handling them so that you can expect to get most of them right when you next take the test.

Next, do the same thing with another thing you could be better at, say handling number properties questions, or CR questions, or whatever. Work topic by topic, becoming an expert at one topic at a time.

To score 670 on the GMAT, you don't need to know every little thing. You just need to be effective enough at enough things, and notice that I said "effective enough" rather than "knowledgeable enough". You have to be good at PLAYING this game in order to win it.

You probably should buy the rest of the Manhattan practice tests, and if you use all of them up you could move onto the Veritas tests and then any other tests as needed. Also, be sure to use the official GMAT Prep tests as well so that you get practice taking official tests and don't show up for the test and get surprised by what you see.

Here's a blog post about objective oriented GMAT preparation, one from which you might get some additional insight.

https://infinitemindprep.com/raising-you ... the-board/

Here's a source of decent practice quant questions in case you want a bunch of categorized questions. You can access the questions by going to the GMAT area and signing up for a practice account.

https://bellcurves.com

Marty Murray wrote:Hi Prada.

For starters, Manhattan Prep practice tests are known for generating scores a bit below those generated by either Veritas tests or by official tests. So there is a significant probability that you have made some progress via the preparation that you have done, and that had you taken an official practice test rather than a Manhattan Prep practice test you would have scored higher.

Next, as has been discussed, your having taken only two practice tests during all that time you have been preparing seems off. Beyond being a way to learn how to handle the test itself, taking practice tests tends to be a key component of people's preparation in multiple ways, ways including providing insight into what the people need to work in order to hit their score goals.

That brings up another point.

When you talk about preparing, you talk about things like "learning the material" and "understanding the concepts", and saying those things does not really describe what you need to do in order to score high on the GMAT.

The GMAT is a game, and "the material" and "the concepts" are merely components of the game. It's almost as if you wanted to learn to win at poker or chess, and so you read the rule book for a year. Hey, knowing the concepts is great, but that is just the beginning.

Going forward you need to see the test as a game that you need to get better at, and your being objective oriented is JUST RIGHT.

Probably your best next step would be to go over that Manhattan test that you took and see what you needed to do better in order to score higher. You could use Manhattan's analytics to get a sense of what topics you know best and which ones you whiffed and then get to work doing what YOU SPECIFICALLY need to do in order to hit your score goal.

In other words, you don't have to "go over the material". You are already familiar with most of the ideas that are used as components of GMAT questions. Rather you need to learn what you need to learn in order to get more right answers.

For instance, if on that test you got only half of the geometry questions right, then you could close in on your score goal by getting better at handling geometry questions. Each right answer is roughly worth 10 points. So if you get to the point where you can expect to get two more right answers to geometry questions, in a very rough sense you will have gotten 20 points closer to your goal. To achieve that increase you could go over the geometry questions that you missed, see what you needed to be better at in order to get them right, learn about whatever that is, and do geometry practice questions, 20, 30, or 50 of them, whatever it takes for you to get good enough at handling them so that you can expect to get most of them right when you next take the test.

Next, do the same thing with another thing you could be better at, say handling number properties questions, or CR questions, or whatever. Work topic by topic, becoming an expert at one topic at a time.

To score 670 on the GMAT, you don't need to know every little thing. You just need to be effective enough at enough things, and notice that I said "effective enough" rather than "knowledgeable enough". You have to be good at PLAYING this game in order to win it.

You probably should buy the rest of the Manhattan practice tests, and if you use all of them up you could move onto the Veritas tests and then any other tests as needed. Also, be sure to use the official GMAT Prep tests as well so that you get practice taking official tests and don't show up for the test and get surprised by what you see.

Here's a blog post about objective oriented GMAT preparation, one from which you might get some additional insight.

https://infinitemindprep.com/raising-you ... the-board/

Here's a source of decent practice quant questions in case you want a bunch of categorized questions. You can access the questions by going to the GMAT area and signing up for a practice account.

https://bellcurves.com

Hi Marty,

Thanks for your input.Yeah you are right I need to be more alert and attuned as to what the question is really testing me for. I also need to pick up on subtle things that are actually quite important. For example things like "Non-zero integer" versus "positive integers" etc can be insightful. Or the answer choices might clue me into how to solve the question using just logic/simplification/eliminination etc. Using raw math solely is taking away problem solving options and even perhaps overcomplicating things.

One thing I have to admit is that I got so accustomed to casually answering the questions that I forgot the stress a ticking clock can induce. I remember saying to myself "gosh 2 mins in and I don know how to tackle this question what do I do what do I do" and that added more stress and well I probably not only got that wrong but I just forbade myself the luxury of time on other questions too! So I think that that too is part of what you call the game and like I said I ended all my exams literally just guessing the last 3-4 questions and also doing 2-3 before those under lots of pressure so Im sure that hurt my score a lot.

I know that my weakest links are combinatorics and word problems, at least when I used Magoosh that was the case. However if I recall well I think the GMAT test things like arthithemetic, algebra and equations much more then stats or coordinate geometry. The latter being subjects Im actually pretty good at. Finally Ive noticed that things like finding the unit digits, LCM formula, formula for finding the area of an equilateral triangle etc are things I know but things I rarely encountered on the tests.

So henceforth I will take more of a targeted approach addressing one weakness at a time.Rather then a comprehensive approach.
-I will also do more CATs and review them to find trends of weakness.
-I rarely come on here but will come more often to follow you experts and your train of thought and analysis.

I believe your link doesn't work? I appreciate the suggestion, would you have the working link?

Thanks again Marty, appreciate your input

[email protected] wrote:Hi prada,

Your score goal is reasonable, and with a 560 you're really not that far from a 630+. Considering how long you've been studying though, you've likely developed a series of 'bad habits' that will take some time to 'fix' (and replace with new 'good habits'). As such, you might find it beneficial to invest in a GMAT Course of some type (either Guided Self-Study or instructor-led), so that you can learn all of the necessary Tactics AND how best to work step-by-step through GMAT questions.

GMAT assassins aren't born, they're made,
Rich

Hi Rich,

My case reminds me of the infamous saying, which I paraphrase "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result"
So after almost a year doing and re-doing the magoosh videos and questions I guess I expected a different result. Well the good news is that I haven't been declared clinically insane .
I was getting around 70-80% of all the question in each section on magoosh correctly so naturally I was upbeat. As I said to Marty I think I have to think beyond just raw math and think more diligently and be more systematic in my studying.
I might have to take a step back and pin point my weakness' as well as consider maybe using a private counsel. Just at this point I can't really afford it since Im not working but I should soon be able to do so, I hope. I will follow your posts here and also consult you once I am able to afford to do so. Im not giving up baby!

prada wrote:I believe your link doesn't work? I appreciate the suggestion, would you have the working link?

Hi. I checked both of the links both in my post and in your quote of my post and the links all work. Maybe you can search for the pages to get to them via different paths. One is a blog post called "Increasing Your GMAT Score By Finding Ways To Put Points On The Board". The other is the home page of a test prep company called BellCurves.

Marty Murray wrote:

prada wrote:I believe your link doesn't work? I appreciate the suggestion, would you have the working link?

Hi. I checked both of the links both in my post and in your quote of my post and the links all work. Maybe you can search for the pages to get to them via different paths. One is a blog post called "Increasing Your GMAT Score By Finding Ways To Put Points On The Board". The other is the home page of a test prep company called BellCurves.

Hi Marty,

Yes now its working. For some reason the other day the page was working but the main text in the middle was empty. Regardless yes I think it parallels what you were saying earlier and I will need to be more strategic in my studying. Thanks for help, I will also try the practice test on the other website you suggested in a week or so.

thx

prada wrote:I will also try the practice test on the other website you suggested in a week or so.

That site is great for quant practice questions but is not very good for verbal or for practice tests.

Marty Murray wrote:

prada wrote:I will also try the practice test on the other website you suggested in a week or so.

That site is great for quant practice questions but is not very good for verbal or for practice tests.

Thats still cool, practice is practice. Besides there are many more sources for practice exams. I think right now is seeing how Im being outwitted. Im reviewing my last CAT mistakes and in many cases I was outsmarted as in an oversight or forgetting I could do XYZ and not cases I just didn't have the tools to solve the problem.

prada wrote:I think right now is seeing how Im being outwitted. Im reviewing my last CAT mistakes and in many cases I was outsmarted as in an oversight or forgetting I could do XYZ and not cases I just didn't have the tools to solve the problem.

OK perfect. You could see the kinds of things that got you and what types of questions you spent the most time on, and then, for quant, go to the BellCurves question bank and work on questions in the categories you need to work on most. If you do say 40 questions of a type, and shoot for a high hit rate, likely you will develop bigtime. Shoot for at least an 80% hit rate when you do practice questions.

Marty Murray wrote:

prada wrote:I think right now is seeing how Im being outwitted. Im reviewing my last CAT mistakes and in many cases I was outsmarted as in an oversight or forgetting I could do XYZ and not cases I just didn't have the tools to solve the problem.

OK perfect. You could see the kinds of things that got you and what types of questions you spent the most time on, and then, for quant, go to the BellCurves question bank and work on questions in the categories you need to work on most. If you do say 40 questions of a type, and shoot for a high hit rate, likely you will develop bigtime. Shoot for at least an 80% hit rate when you do practice questions.

Ok cool, yeah thats the logic I used in the verbal section. Trying to get 80% plus on RC, CR and SC and which I achieved with Magoosh but I didn't do a section by section analysis in Quant. Besides verbal doesn't intimidate me as much as Quant. I definitely feel more pressured and stressed doing Quant then Verbal. I can still do better on Verbal but I know that will come more naturally.

thx