Explain the use of Past Perfect in the non-underlined part

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by RBBmba@2014 » Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:10 am
DavidG@VeritasPrep wrote:
But apart from this particular use, what are the OTHER VALID usages of SINCE on GMAT - could you please shed some light on this aspect ?
Are you asking for sample OA's that include 'since?' Or are you asking if 'since' could be used in a fundamentally different way than the above example?
Yes,what are the OTHER VALID usages(re fundamentally different way than the above example) of SINCE on GMAT, APART FROM the usage in above example and the usage in which SINCE=BECAUSE ?

And yes again, it'd be great if you could cite any Official questions on the such usages of SINCE on GMAT ?

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by DavidG@VeritasPrep » Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:40 am
Yes,what are the OTHER VALID usages(re fundamentally different way than the above example) of SINCE on GMAT, APART FROM the usage in above example and the usage in which SINCE=BECAUSE ?

And yes again, it'd be great if you could cite any Official questions on the such usages of SINCE on GMAT ?
It looks like you've got a handle on the two ways "since" can be used. It can refer to time or to a causal relation.

There are plenty of OA's in which "since" refers to time, but I haven't been able to find one in which "since" is used to imply causation. (My guess is that, though usage guides permit "since" to describe a causal relation, "because" is preferred on the GMAT as there is no possibility of ambiguity. For example, "Since I studied for the GMAT, I've been exhausted," has two possible meanings. It could mean that I've been exhausted from the time I studied for the GMAT until now. Or it could mean that I'm exhausted because I studied for the GMAT.)
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by RBBmba@2014 » Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:46 am
DavidG@VeritasPrep wrote:
Yes,what are the OTHER VALID usages(re fundamentally different way than the above example) of SINCE on GMAT, APART FROM the usage in above example and the usage in which SINCE=BECAUSE ?

And yes again, it'd be great if you could cite any Official questions on the such usages of SINCE on GMAT ?
It looks like you've got a handle on the two ways "since" can be used. It can refer to time or to a causal relation.

There are plenty of OA's in which "since" refers to time, but I haven't been able to find one in which "since" is used to imply causation. (My guess is that, though usage guides permit "since" to describe a causal relation, "because" is preferred on the GMAT as there is no possibility of ambiguity. For example, "Since I studied for the GMAT, I've been exhausted," has two possible meanings. It could mean that I've been exhausted from the time I studied for the GMAT until now. Or it could mean that I'm exhausted because I studied for the GMAT.)
Thanks Dave.

But, "Since I studied for the GMAT, I've been exhausted" -- if it were to mean "SINCE the time", then shouldn't it use PRESENT PERFECT(have studied) instead of SIMPLE PAST(studied) ?

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by DavidG@VeritasPrep » Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:27 am
But, "Since I studied for the GMAT, I've been exhausted" -- if it were to mean "SINCE the time", then shouldn't it use PRESENT PERFECT(have studied) instead of SIMPLE PAST(studied) ?
Not necessarily. "Since" is referring to the time when the subject was exhausted. Imagine that the subject in question studied for the GMAT from 9am to 11am. Afterwards, the subject experiences exhaustion from 11am until the present. I could have written "Since 11 am, I've been exhausted," instead of "Since I studied for the GMAT, I I've been exhausted."

"11 am" and "studied for the GMAT" are just two ways of signaling when the exhaustion began, and both are in the past. Put another way, the subject continues to be exhausted into the present, but the cause of this exhaustion is the studying that happened in the past.

You're likely thinking of a scenario such as:

"Since 9am, I have been studying for the GMAT." Here, "9am" marks the beginning of the subject's studying, which continues into the present.
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by GMATGuruNY » Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:43 pm
RBBmba@2014 wrote:what are the OTHER VALID usages of SINCE on GMAT - could you please shed some light on this aspect ?
A since-clause can also serve to express a causal relationship.
An OA in GMATPrep:
Prospecting for gold was a relatively easy task, since erosion put gold literally within reach of anybody with a pan.
Here, the since-clause serves to express what CAUSED prospecting to be a relatively easy task.

This sort of usage is very rare on the GMAT.
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by RBBmba@2014 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:53 am
@ Dave - "Since 9am, I have been studying for the GMAT." OR "Since 11 am, I've been exhausted" -- both mark the beginning of an action (in the PAST), which continues into the present. Am I correct ?

@ Dave/Mitch -
But what I'd like to get clarified:
As far as TIME related usage of SINCE is concerned on the GMAT, SINCE is used with PRESENT PERFECT MOSTLY, I think. Right ?

If so, then could you please let me know EXACTLY where this PRESENT PERFECT is used ? I mean, is the PRESENT PERFECT used in the clause following SINCE or in the clause preceding SINCE in a SC in which SINCE indicates TIME aspect ?

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by DavidG@VeritasPrep » Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:06 am
@ Dave - "Since 9am, I have been studying for the GMAT." OR "Since 11 am, I've been exhausted" -- both mark the beginning of an action (in the PAST), which continues into the present. Am I correct ?
Exactly right.
As far as TIME related usage of SINCE is concerned on the GMAT, SINCE is used with PRESENT PERFECT MOSTLY, I think. Right ?

If so, then could you please let me know EXACTLY where this PRESENT PERFECT is used ? I mean, is the PRESENT PERFECT used in the clause following SINCE or in the clause preceding SINCE in a SC in which SINCE indicates TIME aspect ?

Either way is acceptable. A simple example:

"I have been studying since 9am."

"Since 9am I have been studying."


Some OA's:

Part of the proposed increase in state education spending is due to higher enrollment: the number of students in public schools has grown steadily since the mid-1980's and, at nearly 47 million, has reached a record high.


After analyzing data gathered by weather satellites, scientists report that the Earth's northern latitudes have become about ten percent greener since 1980, due to more vigorous plant growth associated with warmer temperatures and higher levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide.


Since 1990 the global economy has grown more than it did during the 10,000 years from the beginning of agriculture
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by RBBmba@2014 » Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:34 am
GMATGuruNY wrote:
RBBmba@2014 wrote:what are the OTHER VALID usages of SINCE on GMAT - could you please shed some light on this aspect ?
A since-clause can also serve to express a causal relationship.
An OA in GMATPrep:
Prospecting for gold was a relatively easy task, since erosion put gold literally within reach of anybody with a pan.
Here, the since-clause serves to express what CAUSED prospecting to be a relatively easy task.

This sort of usage is very rare on the GMAT.
Hi Mitch - a quick clarification required.

Unlike in TIME aspect,in a causal relationship SINCE can take PAST PERFECT on GMAT.Right ?

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by RBBmba@2014 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:37 am
Hi Mitch - could you please let me know your views on my immediate above post ?

Look forward to your feedback. Much thanks in advance!

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by GMATGuruNY » Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:31 am
RBBmba@2014 wrote:[

Hi Mitch - a quick clarification required.

Unlike in TIME aspect,in a causal relationship SINCE can take PAST PERFECT on GMAT.Right ?
Correct:
John decided to watch the movie on his own, since his wife had already seen it with her friends.

The likelihood that an OA will include since + PAST PERFECT is very small.
On the GMAT, since only rarely serves to express a causal relationship.
In the vast majority of cases, since serves to express a TEMPORAL relationship.
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by richachampion » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:50 am
GMATGuruNY wrote:
Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil, their descendants, popularly known as killer bees, had migrated as far north as southern Texas.

(A) Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil,
(B) In less than 35 years since releasing African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil,
(C) In less than the 35 years since African honeybees had been released outside Sao Paulo, Brazil,
(D) It took less than 35 years from the release of African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil, when
(E) It took less than the 35 years after the time that African honeybees were released outside Sao Paulo, Brazil, and then
B: Since RELEASING African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, THEIR DESCENDANTS...
The implication here is that THEIR DESCENDANTS were responsible for RELEASING African honeybees outside Sao Paolo.
Not the intended meaning.
Eliminate B.

C: 35 years since African honeybees HAD BEEN RELEASED
If the release of the bees took place on January 1, 1900, then on January 1, 1950, the bees already HAD BEEN RELEASED.
Thus, 35 years since African Honeybees HAD BEEN RELEASED could imply January 1, 1950 + 35 years = January 1, 1985.
Not the intended timeline.
The intended meaning is that the the migration took place LESS THAN 35 YEARS after the release -- sometime BEFORE January 1, 1935.
Eliminate C.

D and E: It took less than 35 years.
Here, it lacks a clear referent.
Eliminate D and E.

The correct answer is A.

In D and E, it seems to be serving as an EXPLETIVE.
An expletive is a placeholder pronoun whose purpose is to DELAY THE SUBJECT.
On the GMAT, the delayed subject typically will be an infinitive phrase or a that-clause.

IT is easy TO LIKE MARY.
Here, it is standing in for to like Mary.
Conveyed meaning:
TO LIKE MARY is easy.

IT was not until last year THAT JOHN BEGAN STUDYING.
Here, it is standing in for that John began studying.
Conveyed meaning:
THAT JOHN BEGAN STUDYING was not until last year.

In D and E, the referent for it is unclear.
Is my understanding for C correct:

The process of release = Process of migration that should take less than 35 years in its entirety.

had been released: means that the process of release is already completed. so there is a shift in total time consumed in the whole migration:

time consumed in the release + the time consumed since the entire release had already happened. so here we have 2-time frames, but the intended meaning is that there are only one-time frame and the process of release = less than 35 years is also the time frame for migration.
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by GMATGuruNY » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:40 am
richachampion wrote:the intended meaning is that there are only one-time frame and the process of release = less than 35 years is also the time frame for migration.
Your understanding is correct.

Another line of reasoning:

One definition of since is starting at a particular moment.
The past perfect serves to an express an action that happened at an INDEFINITE moment in the past.
For this reason, since + SUBJECT + PAST PERFECT is not viable:
Whereas since serves to refer to a DEFINITE moment, the past perfect serves to express an action that happened at an INDEFINITE moment.
The result is an illogical construction.

C: In less than the 35 years since African honeybees had been released outside Sao Paulo
As noted above, the portion in red is an illogical construction.
Eliminate C.
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