Demographers

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by killer1387 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:55 am
lunarpower wrote:
Fractal wrote:D. would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economic

Would D. also be correct as followed:

D. have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economic

... or is the addition of "would" necessary?

thx
no -- that's the same tense as "do", creating a sentence that contradicts itself.

the sentence would work with "would" (implying a purely hypothetical consideration); it would also work with "will" in that place (implying a reasonable chance that this will be possible in the future).
Ron,
I didn't get your point. Please explain through the listed examples. Grammatically, I think all are correct but yeah the intended meanings are different.

To top the list, Mark has to study hard.

To top the list, Mark will have to study hard.

To top the list, Mark will study hard.

To top the list, Mark would have to study hard.

To top the list, Mark would study hard.

Thanx.

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by lunarpower » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:55 pm
killer1387 wrote:To top the list, Mark has to study hard.
... this is what he has to do right now.
To top the list, Mark will have to study hard.
... at some point in the future. (that could be twenty years from now or two minutes from now, but it can't be right now.)
To top the list, Mark will study hard.
this refers to something mark will do in the future. this sentence also conveys a fair degree of certainty that mark will actually "top the list".
as an analogy, if i write To power the lightbulb, i will stick two electrodes into a potato, i am implying that this strange method will actually succeed in powering the lightbulb.
To top the list, Mark would have to study hard.
... implies that mark is not actually going to do this. (a more complete context for this that would be something like To top the list, Mark would have to study hard; however, he prefers to relax and get mediocre scores instead.)
To top the list, Mark would study hard.
in terms of objective meaning, this sentence isn't very different from the preceding one. however, the previous sentence emphasizes the responsibility or obligation of studying (hence "would have to"), while this sentence emphasizes the actual act of studying.
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by jaichil » Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:05 am
Thank you Ron.

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by GmatKiss » Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:09 am
To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic determinants of fertility.

A. have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic
B. have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
C. would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
D. would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economic
E. would have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economical

IMO: D

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by tanviet » Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:58 pm
lunarpower wrote:
mmslf75 wrote:
mmslf75 wrote:
reachac wrote:To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic determinants of fertility.

A. have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic
B. have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
C. would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
D. would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economic
E. would have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economical
OA here is D,

What's wrong with E

Why cannot we say "KNOW A GREAT DEAL MORE THAN NOW " in lieu of "know a great deal more than they do now"

I have read on BTG / MGMAT forum..dont recall where that when the message is conveyed in the former of the sentence
one need not mention again.. so why here in D we mention ??

Also, if I have a sentence
Tom has always eaten more food than Jerry <has>
Tom has always eaten more food than Jerry < < > >
Tom has always eaten more food than jerry <does>

When does one use DOES/DO/DID in latter part of the sentence, given that we have HAVE/HAS/ in former part of the sentence

What do we use here ???
usually, when you omit verbs like that, you're omitting a verb that's in the same tense as the original verb.

for instance, if you wrote
tom has always eaten more food than jerry
...then the IMPLICATION is
tom has always eaten more food than jerry has.
in other words, if the verb is omitted, then you're (usually, from what i've seen) implying that the omitted verb is of the same tense as whatever other verb appears in the construction.

i.e., in your other sentence - Tom has always eaten more food than jerry <does> - you can't omit the "does", since that omission would destroy the second time frame.

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if you understand the difference between "economic" and "economical", though, then this isn't a problem in the first place (since "economical" is quite incorrect).

great, Ron, but I have different perspective of this point.

in many gmatprep questions , I see gmat prefer to keep "do" in the second half of comparion even when there is no ambuguity. Namely,

I sing better than you do

is prefered to

I sing better than you

This preference happens many time on some gmatprep questions which I do not remember. So the matter is PREFERENCE, a mechanical rule , not the matter of parallelism.

I already posted my idea on manhantan forum, please, Ron, give us your idea on this point. Thank you Ron.

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by lunarpower » Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:48 pm
duongthang wrote:in many gmatprep questions , I see gmat prefer to keep "do" in the second half of comparion even when there is no ambuguity. Namely,

I sing better than you do

is prefered to

I sing better than you
this is extremely unlikely, since both versions are fine. you are probably looking at problems in which this simply isn't the issue.

for instance, consider #38 in the OG verbal supplement. in that problem, some choices have "do"; the others don't. however, both versions are fine -- that problem is decided by other issues.
also note that this problem is a counterexample to what you've written above: viz., "than..." and "than do..." are both fine, but the correct answer uses the former.
This preference happens many time on some gmatprep questions which I do not remember.
"many times that i don't remember" ... i laughed.

you should try to find these problems; i would bet either (a) that they're like the example above, in which this distinction is altogether irrelevant, or (b) that there is indeed some issue of ambiguity/meaning involved.
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by thulsy » Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:42 pm
Hi Ron,
As for this official question, I see the OE says - contrary to what you just said - that "the verb do ungrammatically interrupts the comparison and should be eliminated".
I guess the problem with "do" in this sentence is that "do" should be "will" instead, or omitted.
... they will require less medication and gain weight quicker than (will) those raised in confinement.
Am I correct? Thanks.
lunarpower wrote: for instance, consider #38 in the OG verbal supplement. in that problem, some choices have "do"; the others don't. however, both versions are fine -- that problem is decided by other issues.
also note that this problem is a counterexample to what you've written above: viz., "than..." and "than do..." are both fine, but the correct answer uses the former.

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by lunarpower » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:51 am
thulsy wrote:Hi Ron,
As for this official question, I see the OE says - contrary to what you just said - that "the verb do ungrammatically interrupts the comparison and should be eliminated".
I guess the problem with "do" in this sentence is that "do" should be "will" instead, or omitted.
... they will require less medication and gain weight quicker than (will) those raised in confinement.
Am I correct? Thanks.
that could still make sense. let's say that there are animals in confinement that are yielding results right now, but we're considering the consequences of letting them exercise and associate with each other.
then, you'd have "they will blah blah blah (in the future) more quickly than do those raised in confinement (right now)".

also, if you insert "do" into the correct answer, then there's absolutely no issue at all, because everything is in the present tense.
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by vietmoi999 » Wed May 01, 2013 6:52 am
experts, member, pls read my idea following carefully and give your opinion

there are 3cases, in which "would" is used

1. "would" is past tense of "will"
2. "would" is used the say of contrary-to-fact action
3. "would" is used in place of will in present time to say LESS DIFINITE actio"wound"

in D , the OA, "would" is in case 3 because there is no contraty-to-fact action here. the action in D is quite possible to happen and we should use "will" or "would" with less definite implication.

OG explanation is that the use of "would" in D is due to contraty-to-fact action. I think this is not correct.

experts, members, pls help me, I am confused. If my thinking is correct, og explanation is wrong.

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by confused13 » Mon Nov 03, 2014 8:32 am
Why does A use wrong comparison?

The comparison is not ambiguous in my opinion

"they need to know more about X than now" - only meaning that makes sense is "[..]need to know more about X than they do now"

The possible comparison is just senseless and therefore does not lead to ambiguity

"they (Researchers) need to know more about X than now knows" ??? now isn't a person, so this second interpretation doesn't make sense and hence cannot cause ambiguity, can it?