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Bold face question: delta products _fossil fuel consumption
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raghavakumar85
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heshamelaziry
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I saw one question in MGMAT that tests this pricipleTestluv wrote:Hi Raghava,raghavakumar85 wrote:Well, I can't bet on itTestluv wrote:If you think the second bold statement is the conclusion, then what do you think is the evidence that supports it?raghavakumar85 wrote:IMO B (may be after i saw the answer
Observe the words carefully. "The answer is yes, since............" Doesn't it mean that it is the content of the conclusion?
Also the THE ANSWER IS YES is just an answer for a question unstated in the argument, but not the conclusion IMO.
Note that E was reported as the OA by the original poster. Typos (even in the OG) have been known to happen. Also, mjjjking's explanation above is very nice.
The correct answer is clearly E. I would be willing to bet a lot of money on it.
Suppose in an argument it is stated that " Because it is X, it is Y" where X is evidence and Y is conclusion.
Same statement when re-structured can be stated as " It is Y because it is X" where again X is evidence and Y is conclusion.
Am i right?
not quite. All people living in Toronto are living in Canada. That is to say, because they live in Toronto, they necessarily live in Canada.
Does that mean that all people who live in Canada live in Toronto?
What you are actually talking about in the above is conditional statements (if-then statements).
if x then y does NOT establish that if y then x.
if x then y does establish that if no y, then no x.
At any rate, this does not get tested on the GMAT.
I assume you are asking in attempt to assert that the last sentence's being the conclusion can theoretically be supported by the ideas that preceded it?
The word "since" will ALWAYS signal evidence and not conclusion. (Just as it does in everyday speech.)
And the "content of the conclusion" must be interpreted as "the conclusion." If it were to be interepreted as something else, the question would lose its objectivity, and would be ambiguous. GMAT goes through great pains to remove ambiguity and to ensure that there is only one logically supportable and correct interpretation of every phrase used. (That, in fact, is the main reason the test costs so much to take).
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Testluv
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Yes, I have seen some OG questions testing the distinction between sufficiency and necessity. They are not common but they do exist. In fact, the tiger question posted on this forum a few days ago was testing this concept.heshamelaziry wrote:I saw one question in MGMAT that tests this pricipleTestluv wrote:Hi Raghava,raghavakumar85 wrote:Well, I can't bet on itTestluv wrote:If you think the second bold statement is the conclusion, then what do you think is the evidence that supports it?raghavakumar85 wrote:IMO B (may be after i saw the answer
Observe the words carefully. "The answer is yes, since............" Doesn't it mean that it is the content of the conclusion?
Also the THE ANSWER IS YES is just an answer for a question unstated in the argument, but not the conclusion IMO.
Note that E was reported as the OA by the original poster. Typos (even in the OG) have been known to happen. Also, mjjjking's explanation above is very nice.
The correct answer is clearly E. I would be willing to bet a lot of money on it.
Suppose in an argument it is stated that " Because it is X, it is Y" where X is evidence and Y is conclusion.
Same statement when re-structured can be stated as " It is Y because it is X" where again X is evidence and Y is conclusion.
Am i right?
not quite. All people living in Toronto are living in Canada. That is to say, because they live in Toronto, they necessarily live in Canada.
Does that mean that all people who live in Canada live in Toronto?
What you are actually talking about in the above is conditional statements (if-then statements).
if x then y does NOT establish that if y then x.
if x then y does establish that if no y, then no x.
At any rate, this does not get tested on the GMAT.
I assume you are asking in attempt to assert that the last sentence's being the conclusion can theoretically be supported by the ideas that preceded it?
The word "since" will ALWAYS signal evidence and not conclusion. (Just as it does in everyday speech.)
And the "content of the conclusion" must be interpreted as "the conclusion." If it were to be interepreted as something else, the question would lose its objectivity, and would be ambiguous. GMAT goes through great pains to remove ambiguity and to ensure that there is only one logically supportable and correct interpretation of every phrase used. (That, in fact, is the main reason the test costs so much to take).
That said, the OG explicitly states in the OG that formal logic conventions are not tested. For example, a right answer to an inference question will never be the contrapositive of a conditional statement in the passage, etc.
Kaplan Teacher in Toronto
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Testluv
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Yes, actually this is correct. The first time I had read this I thought Raghava was reversing causation...(because that is exactly what one would have to do in order to think that the second bold statement of this passage was conclusion).raghavakumar85 wrote:Well, I can't bet on itTestluv wrote:If you think the second bold statement is the conclusion, then what do you think is the evidence that supports it?raghavakumar85 wrote:IMO B (may be after i saw the answer
Observe the words carefully. "The answer is yes, since............" Doesn't it mean that it is the content of the conclusion?
Also the THE ANSWER IS YES is just an answer for a question unstated in the argument, but not the conclusion IMO.
Note that E was reported as the OA by the original poster. Typos (even in the OG) have been known to happen. Also, mjjjking's explanation above is very nice.
The correct answer is clearly E. I would be willing to bet a lot of money on it.
Suppose in an argument it is stated that " Because it is X, it is Y" where X is evidence and Y is conclusion.
Same statement when re-structured can be stated as " It is Y because it is X" where again X is evidence and Y is conclusion.
Am i right?
Anyways, to be clear, all of the following are, of course, equivalent:
Since X, Y
Y, since X
X therefore Y
Y because of X
Because of X, Y
Y due to X
X led to Y
X responsible for Y
etc
Kaplan Teacher in Toronto
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raghavakumar85
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Ok.. Thank you! I was only half satisfied with your response yesterday. 
The causation does not change just because we are changing the sentence structure. If I had said "It is X, because it is Y" as " Because it is X, it is Y" then the meaning and the causation of sentence would have changed. 
The causation does not change just because we are changing the sentence structure. If I had said "It is X, because it is Y" as " Because it is X, it is Y" then the meaning and the causation of sentence would have changed. -
Testluv
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The question in OG12 is a different version. Some entity took the text of the OG question, emboldened different statements, and asked a different question. (This would be grounds for copyright infringement!)bikash123 wrote:the question is from OG 12 and the answer is B
Kaplan Teacher in Toronto
The correct answer for this question is E - as identified by most people on this post.Testluv wrote:If you think the second bold statement is the conclusion, then what do you think is the evidence that supports it?raghavakumar85 wrote:IMO B (may be after i saw the answer
Observe the words carefully. "The answer is yes, since............" Doesn't it mean that it is the content of the conclusion?
Also the THE ANSWER IS YES is just an answer for a question unstated in the argument, but not the conclusion IMO.
Note that E was reported as the OA by the original poster. Typos (even in the OG) have been known to happen. Also, mjjjking's explanation above is very nice.
The correct answer is clearly E. I would be willing to bet a lot of money on it.
In this question the second boldface is " the amount... held constant" whereas in the OG 12 guide the second boldface is the statement "for a given level of output Delta's operation now causes less fossil fuel to be consumed than it did formerly" , in which case the answer is rightly B
Cheers,
Andspeed
In OG, the answer is B). And the explanation it gave regarding choice E) is
"The second boldfaced portion is not offered as support for the conclusion; if it were offered as such support, the argument would be guilty of circular reasoning, since the second portion states exactly what the argument concludes"
I tend to agree with this explanation. Notice that The 2nd part ( i.e. the boldface ) is NOT the question it is posing. It is just the statement that Delta is consuming less fossil fuel than it did before, which is the conclusion itself.
I agree that the wording is confusing. Regardless, the takeaway for me is that in answering the boldfaced questions, one needs to be careful in picking what the conclusion is first.
"The second boldfaced portion is not offered as support for the conclusion; if it were offered as such support, the argument would be guilty of circular reasoning, since the second portion states exactly what the argument concludes"
I tend to agree with this explanation. Notice that The 2nd part ( i.e. the boldface ) is NOT the question it is posing. It is just the statement that Delta is consuming less fossil fuel than it did before, which is the conclusion itself.
I agree that the wording is confusing. Regardless, the takeaway for me is that in answering the boldfaced questions, one needs to be careful in picking what the conclusion is first.
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[email protected]
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The first bold faced part plays the role of an introductory premise and hence is just a premise.
The second bold faced part plays the role of the Most Important Premise in identifying or proving the Conclusion...
Hence E is the answer...
Hope this helped!!!
The second bold faced part plays the role of the Most Important Premise in identifying or proving the Conclusion...
Hence E is the answer...
Hope this helped!!!
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HI Everyone,
Sorry for starting an old tread, but the OA is infact B not E. This is a OG 12th Edition CR question # 97.
What is the disconnect?
B does makes sense. Second bold face is infact not the conclusion but is identifying the conclusion. It is not really supporting anything.
Please advice.
Sorry for starting an old tread, but the OA is infact B not E. This is a OG 12th Edition CR question # 97.
What is the disconnect?
B does makes sense. Second bold face is infact not the conclusion but is identifying the conclusion. It is not really supporting anything.
Please advice.
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sachindia
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Sir Ron,lunarpower wrote:you can do most boldface questions with the following 3-point procedure:
1) FIND THE CONCLUSION OF THE PASSAGE IN SIMPLE TERMS
in this case, the conclusion is "yes, delta's operations now use less fossil fuel."
2) JUDGE WHETHER THE BOLDFACE PARTS CHALLENGE, SUPPORT, OR ACTUALLY ARE THE CONCLUSION
no need to be more subtle than this, at least at first.
in this case, both boldface parts are PRO-conclusion. neither one of them actually IS the conclusion.
3) SELECT THE APPROPRIATE ANSWER CHOICE
(a) is wrong because it says boldface #1 is the conclusion.
(b) is wrong because it says boldface #2 is the conclusion.
in (c) both parts are wrong; #1 isn't anti-conclusion, and #2 isn't the conclusion.
in (d) both parts are wrong; neither #1 nor #2 is anti-conclusion.
(e) correctly points out that both #1 and #2 are pro-conclusion, but that neither is the actual conclusion.
How is the first BF supporting the conclusion.. It is just a premise..
Regards,
Sach
Sach
