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Ask Aringo - if your GMAT is below 720.

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sunman: Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts; Posts: 165; Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:05 amFollowed by: 9 members; Location: San Diego, CA; Thanked: 14 times; GMAT Score:750

by sunman » Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:18 am

2.1 out of 4....?

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has" - Margaret Mead

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kg4107: Newbie | Next Rank: 10 Posts; Posts: 4; Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:54 am; GMAT Score:640

by kg4107 » Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:27 am

A 2.1 is a British Undergraduate degree classification. 2.1 equates to a gpa between 3.33-3.67
(unofficially)

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georgepaul0071987: Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts; Posts: 81; Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:38 am; Thanked: 2 times

by georgepaul0071987 » Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:48 am

deleted

Last edited by georgepaul0071987 on Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BrianW@Aringo: Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts; Posts: 40; Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:49 am; Thanked: 5 times

by BrianW@Aringo » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:55 pm

Hi

Could you evaluate my profile?

I took up the GMAT thrice. Got 610 in my first attempt. 660 (47Q 34V) in my second and 650 (46Q 34V) in my third (No power for the entire duration of the test made me lose my focus). My practice test scores were in the range of 710 - 740 and I felt good before my third attempt. But as mentioned the external conditions at the test center dampened my chances of getting a good score. I do not want to take the GMAT again.

Here is a short brief on my profile.

1. GMAT - 660 (Highest)
2. Work ex - 13 months with Cognizant Technolgy Solutions as a developer. 16 months as a Product Evangelist at a software products company.
3. Undergrad CGPA - 3.2 not sure on this (82 % - and finished in top 5% of my class)- Electrical Engineering
4. Have led and formed teams at college and at work. Revamped a dead Entrepreneurship Cell at my college by taking it from a one member team to a 75 member team in one year. Received an award at college recognizing this. Led a team of 50 other training batch captains at Cognizant and conceptualized and conducted a one day fundraising cultural activity. Raised 5000$ (INR 2,50,000) for an orphanage.
5. Received an award and lot of appreciation from clients and peers at Cognizant for developing a tool that reduced testing time by 80% and brought down costs by 70% for my client (An insurance company based in the US)
6. Was more interested in marketing and sales side of a product and hence switched to my current role. Have been involved in creating marketing strategies for 4 different products (2 new products) in my current role. Have worked on getting more customer testimonials for the 4 products, have revamped the product blogs and have drastically improved our social media presence.
7. Have been leading teams of size 4 - 10 for the last 8 months now. Played a key role in expansion of the company and have also helped manage recruiting at all levels. We nearly doubled up our head count in the last one year.
8. Have also helped with operations and described as the "The GOTO Man" by my CEO.
9. Was the campus ambassador for Child Rights and You and worked with them to help create awareness for the Right to Education act. Have also been involved with the CSR arm of Cognizant during my stay there.
10. Worked as the Alumni officer at my Undergrad college for two months before my role at Cognizant. Have helped set up the process for the Alumni Scholarship for meritorious students from difficult background. Have been a board member of the Alum Association and was also part of the Scholarship committee and Election committee which oversees the election process for office bearers.
11. Have finished Level 1 Spanish certification and will be taking up Level 2 soon.
12. Learning to play the flute and the sport of archery for last 6 months.

I would like to pursue a specialization in Marketing. Below are the list of my target schools.

1. Indian School of Business
2. University of Virginia - Darden
3. University of Michigan - Ross
4. Cornell University - Johnson
5. Carnegie Mellon University - Tepper
6. UCLA - Anderson

rahulvsd,

Thank you for your profile submission. On the basis of the information as presented and under the assumption of strong essays and recommendations and a GMAT score of 660, our experience indicates that you would be a competitive candidate at Darden, Johnson, and Anderson, between stretch and competitive (closer to competitive) at Ross, and likely competitive or strong at ISB.

In terms of your GMAT score and situation, I would advise you based on our experience with candidates to not elaborate on the reason behind your GMAT score on your various attempts. Instead, just present the fact that you have improved from your first score to your 2nd and 3rd and leave it at that. I can certainly appreciate your frustration with the situation you dealt with, but in terms of your applications we see people do better if they are not interpreted to be making excuses in the application itself.

Regarding your GPA (and this goes for all Indian applicants, who often have this question), please do not try to convert into a 4.0 scale. Instead, just as you have done, list your relative rank in your class and note this on your resume and in the application itself. Top MBA programs know how to judge the GPA of Indian universities because of the significant volume of applications from potential students there.

It will be important to frame the relative positioning and reputation of the companies that you have worked for - typically, it is helpful to put a bullet explaining the company in your resume.

I really like the fact that you are providing not only great quantified impact of your achievements but also talking about how your management team has reacted to and rewarded you for these projects. This will definitely help in your essays and in how you come across in your application. I also commend you on your various activities (learning the flute, learning Spanish) - this shows that you are a type 'A' personality and enjoy learning new things. This is a very important trait to show in an MBA application and one that many ad com directors like to quote ("One of our admitted students did XYZ.") It may sound a bit odd, but it's actually so important for you as an Indian applicant to present these types of interests and personality traits - ad coms see so many Indian engineers that it is often difficult to differentiate the candidates.

Best of luck,

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BrianW@Aringo: Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts; Posts: 40; Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:49 am; Thanked: 5 times

by BrianW@Aringo » Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:27 pm

Hi Aringo,

Thank you in advance for providing your assessment of my profile. I have a somewhat unique work experience and I would greatly appreciate hearing your expert opinion.

Profile:

BA - Small Business Management (2007) from mid 2nd tier state university (University of Massachusetts, New Hampshire, etc.). GPA 3.35 (3.5+ final two years, 3.5+ within major). Graduated cum laude (top 20%).

GMAT: 720 (48 Quant, 41 Verbal - still waiting for AQA, but it will be at least a 5.5). First and only attempt.

Community Involvement:
Almost my entire career has been spent in the non-profit space. I have regularly volunteered at a number of charity events, although I have no on-going commitments.

-1 year marketing assistant in small, private law firm
-3 years in mental health human services - no previous experience. Promoted to youngest manager within company of 1000. Managed 2 direct reports, residential home and outreach team.

-Almost two years as Recruiter for prestigious global non-profit (Gates, Clinton Foundation, etc.). I contribute to evolution of processes and systems, have become the team's expert on Excel, data analysis and process flows. I've created new systems and protocols for a variety of ongoing tasks. I am moving towards a team lead role and am in line to be become manager of global team of 5 in one year.

As you can see, I have not followed the typical path (consulting, analyst, etc.). My career has involved a focus on collaboration, interpersonal communication and interpersonal management, and problem solving.

My career goals are to continue to advance within human resources/human capital strategy or organizational behavior.

My school preferences are:

-Darden
-Kellog
-INSEAD
-Columbia
-Duke
-UNC
-Chicago

Do I have a chance at these schools? Thank you!

dbnoho,

Thank you for your profile submission. On the basis of the information as presented and under the assumption of strong essays and recommendations and a GMAT score of 720, our experience indicates that you would be between a stretch and competitive candidate (closer to stretch) at Kellogg, Booth, and Columbia, between stretch and competitive at INSEAD, and strong at Fuqua, Darden, and Kenan-Flagler.

Overall, the way in which you have positioned your work history and your elaboration on future career goals are very well-thought out. You will be amongst the few applicants to top MBA programs who are interested in human resources and human capital strategy, although this is in some ways a good thing as it is a differentiator. Clearly, you appear to be someone who is going for more of a general management approach for your MBA. Your quant split on the GMAT will also help to give the ad coms confidence that you can do well in the more quantitative-heavy courses, although I would also encourage you to use at least one essay in your application to talk about a more quant or business-oriented problem that you solved.

The fact that you are currently at a prestigious non-profit gives your profile credibility, and it sounds as though your management team respects your abilities. If you are not able to achieve a promotion by the time you apply, in the event that you are waitlisted at any program and receive the promotion, I'd encourage you to include this type of update in your communication with schools. Additionally, you would want to try to have at least one of your recommenders come from your current employer, so that the ad coms can get a sense for your leadership potential.

Best of luck,

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BrianW@Aringo: Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts; Posts: 40; Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:49 am; Thanked: 5 times

by BrianW@Aringo » Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:35 pm

Hey Brian ,

Thanks for your reply ! One quick question - My verbal percentile on the GMAT is 74% , do you think that will be an issue because it is below the 80% percentile ? Should I retake the GMAT to improve my verbal score or is it fine ?

georgepaul0071987,

Thank you for the follow-up question. Wharton historically has indicated it prefers that candidates have at least an 80th percentile performance on both the quant and verbal. A higher GMAT would help your chances at Harvard and Wharton, yes, but it's not the weakest point in your profile in our view and it's not necessary to have a good shot. We already believe you'd be within the competitive range or close to that for these schools - for candidates who want to apply who are more in the stretch category, we might recommend more strongly to retake the GMAT assuming a higher score is plausible to achieve. The main item in your profile that I mentioned is that it makes sense to get more familiar with the entrepreneurship programs at the schools of interest. The way that you positioned your interest (e.g. 'Kellogg for marketing') was a bit too high level.

Best of luck,

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BrianW@Aringo: Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts; Posts: 40; Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:49 am; Thanked: 5 times

by BrianW@Aringo » Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:22 pm

Hi,
Thanks in advance for evaluating my profile. I am unsure of which universities I could target with my below par GMAT score. I am aiming for Manchester & Warwick Business schools within the UK and a few top 20 universities in the USA.

GMAT : 640 ( 44Q,34V) ( 4th Attempt)
3rd Attempt: 30V 44Q 610
2nd Attempt 29V 47Q 630
1st Attempt 25V 39Q 550

Education: 2.1 MEng in Electronic and Communications Engineering from one of the top 10 universities in the UK and top 30 in the world.

Work Experience : 3 Years experience working as an Engineer in a well reputed engineering design consultancy in the UK.During my career I have managed teams within the UK and India. I have devised solutions to improve the methods utilized by my organisation.I have full support from the senior management who are more than willing to recommend me to a business school and offer me a job when I graduate from management school.

Nationality & Age: Indian Male, 27

I am unsure whether I should attempt the GMAT for the 5th time in order to get a higher score.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Many Thanks!

kg4107,

Thank you for your profile submission. On the basis of the information as presented and under the assumption of strong essays and recommendations and a GMAT score of 640, our experience indicates that you would be between a stretch and competitive candidate (closer to stretch) at Carnegie Mellon Tepper, between a stretch and competitive candidate (closer to competitive) at North Carolina Kenan-Flagler and Texas McCombs, and a stretch candidate at top 15 programs in the US. Since Aringo typically works with applicants who are interested in the top 30 programs globally, it would be more difficult for me to provide you with a precise chances evaluation for Manchester and Warwick - in all probability we would directionally project that you would be closer to a competitive candidate at these programs. Both of these programs have started to receive some momentum on the Financial Times rankings, but I would not consider them to be generally accepted as top 30 globally.

As to your question on whether you should retake the GMAT: If you are interested in top 20 programs in the US, and if you believe that you would be able to improve your score by at least an additional 30-40 points, then it may be worthwhile. However, given that your last 3 GMAT scores have hovered in the 610-640 range, you may be reaching a relative plateau. And, once a student has taken the GMAT 3-4 times, each additional re-take may start to give the ad coms some level of skepticism as to whether or not you are spending your time in the most efficient manner. Specifically, that is a lot of time to be studying for the test considering you'll need to spend a good amount of time getting to know your target schools of interest better.

In terms of your overall profile, it is great that your management team appears to be very confident in your abilities and have (appeared to have given you, at least) an offer to return to the firm after you would graduate. One of the important aspects in your application, since you may be returning to your firm, is what do you want out of the MBA and why are you applying. You would presumably need to articulate that you'd either be moving into a different function and/or a more senior role in your organization. And, as an engineer, it's critical to include examples of your leadership, communication, persuation, and presentation abilities in your application - the examples you mention of leading teams in the UK and India sound like good illustration of this to leverage.

Best of luck,

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prnd7748: Junior | Next Rank: 30 Posts; Posts: 13; Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:44 am; Thanked: 2 times

by prnd7748 » Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:52 am

BrianW@Aringo wrote:
Hi Brian,

I have a question regarding low GMAT score - my first test was bad and I'm sure I can improve. I know that when submitting the score report to the school they see all my past scores, so my question is if I should cancel the low GMAT score so it would not hurt me if I score much higher later on? do I have anything to lose if I do that?
prnd7748,

Thank you for your question. Some schools (such as INSEAD) take a look at the lower scores. Therefore, if you're convinced that the score is low and that you can get a better score (or had a better score) it may behoove your candidacy not to report that score.

Best of luck,

Brian, thanks for your previous answer. As it turns out, I can't cancel the score unless it's immediately after the test, so I'll have to live with it and hope for improvement... oh well. Thanks again!

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supermario: Junior | Next Rank: 30 Posts; Posts: 17; Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:23 am; Thanked: 2 times

by supermario » Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:34 am

Dear Brian,

Some MBA programs ask the recommender to rank the candidate through a ranking table (grid) based on their abilities compared to their peers. One of my recommenders told me that he will rank me in the highest category (truly exceptional - top 1%) on everything!
Although this is flattering, isn't it too much? I know the point is to present a highly positive image, but would it be better to balance the rankings with some lower grades to gain more credibility?

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prithvi10: Newbie | Next Rank: 10 Posts; Posts: 4; Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:10 pm

by prithvi10 » Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:18 pm

Hi Brian,

I'm an Indian female interested in doing an MBA in either the US or UK. I am very interested in strategic planning and business development. I just wrote my GMAT a week ago and got 660 (Q44 V37), had expected at least 700, so it is a bit of a disappointment but I'm not sure how much I can improve in such a short time period so I've decided to not write it again. I come from a engineering background having done my grad in Telecom from a top engineering college of my State. I'm not sure what my GPA would be but I graduated with First Class lying in the top 30% of my class. I work in a small product company that focus on video quality monitoring. I wouldn't term myself as an IT person mainly because my job has nothing to do with IT (at least that's how i see it). I have 2 yrs of work experience, by the time i start my MBA it would be 3.

Here's what I'm worried about, i had a job offer from a reputed company in India with a good pay, but I declined that offer to join the company I am working with presently. My dad founded the company and is the CEO, but I mainly joined cause I would be applying everything i learnt about in 4 yrs of college to do my job and i loved the technology they were working with. My designation is Product Manager - now I know ppl automatically conclude that I was given this because of who I am, I thought so too when I joined, but after two years I think I can confidently say I haven't let down my superiors who saw the potential in me and entrusted with such a big responsibility. I was dead set on not doing a job that 90% of engineers do, I wanted to learn, explore and do something different. And I got to do exactly that, I did a lot of research on upcoming strategies that the company should move towards, analysis on the pros and cons of that and helped implement this move as well. I was also responsible for a particular patent pending facet of our product that is our Intellectual Property and a big USP with our clients. The second year I spent a lot of time marketing our products in the US. I have had the opportunity to present and demo our product to our clients like Ericsson. I have also spent close to 5 months training our clients on how to use our products.

I guess what I wanna ask is, do I have a chance at some good schools with my score and work experience. The schools that I would wanna apply are:
Harvard
ISB
Yale
Cornell
Oxford: Said
Cambridge: Judge
Tuck
Tepper
Ross

I understand that some of the above schools may be too much of a stretch, but if so I would like some advice on where to apply and where not to apply. I would love to apply to Booth and Kellogg as well but is it worth it? Am I unique enough for them, do I stand a chance? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Also should I talk about working in a company founded by my dad or not. I understand that some of the opportunities i have been given may have been cause of who I am but I also know that I have gone above and beyond every expectation my superiors have had of me. Due to that I think I was given a lot of assignments well beyond my age and experience, not because of my surname but because I had proved myself before.

Please let me know what I should do in terms of what schools to apply to and what strategy to use.

Many Thanks in advance..

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BrianW@Aringo: Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts; Posts: 40; Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:49 am; Thanked: 5 times

by BrianW@Aringo » Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:03 pm

Dear Brian,

Some MBA programs ask the recommender to rank the candidate through a ranking table (grid) based on their abilities compared to their peers. One of my recommenders told me that he will rank me in the highest category (truly exceptional - top 1%) on everything!
Although this is flattering, isn't it too much? I know the point is to present a highly positive image, but would it be better to balance the rankings with some lower grades to gain more credibility?

supermario,

Thank you for this question about recommendation strategy.

Top 10 admissions committees are quite used to seeing such high rankings. If the content of the recommendation fits in well with such ranking, and if other information in your application is commensurate with such ranking, in our estimation it will contribute to your candidacy in most cases. That is, you may "stumble upon" an AdCom member who may doubt the recommendation's credibility, yet in out estimation in the overwhelming majority of the cases AdCom members will believe that the recommender indeed felt you deserve the highest rankings.

However, if the information in your application (or in the body of the recommendation) does not fit in logically with such rankings (for example, he ranks you in the top 1% on analytical skills, while your grades are rather low) more AdCom members are likely to doubt the recommendation's credibility. In our view, this would hurt your candidacy to a small to medium extent.

The relative importance of each and every grade in such ranking table is low compared to the overall picture (recommendations, essays, CV, application forms, interview). Hence, if your other parameters do not reflect "top 1% in all categories" but do reflect a very talented person, you may wish to ask the recommender to balance a little (just a little bit, in my view) the rankings - especially in areas where it's obvious that you are strong at and which the recommender was not overly exposed to.

Best of luck,

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BrianW@Aringo: Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts; Posts: 40; Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:49 am; Thanked: 5 times

by BrianW@Aringo » Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:42 pm

Hi Brian,

I'm an Indian female interested in doing an MBA in either the US or UK. I am very interested in strategic planning and business development. I just wrote my GMAT a week ago and got 660 (Q44 V37), had expected at least 700, so it is a bit of a disappointment but I'm not sure how much I can improve in such a short time period so I've decided to not write it again. I come from a engineering background having done my grad in Telecom from a top engineering college of my State. I'm not sure what my GPA would be but I graduated with First Class lying in the top 30% of my class. I work in a small product company that focus on video quality monitoring. I wouldn't term myself as an IT person mainly because my job has nothing to do with IT (at least that's how i see it). I have 2 yrs of work experience, by the time i start my MBA it would be 3.

Here's what I'm worried about, i had a job offer from a reputed company in India with a good pay, but I declined that offer to join the company I am working with presently. My dad founded the company and is the CEO, but I mainly joined cause I would be applying everything i learnt about in 4 yrs of college to do my job and i loved the technology they were working with. My designation is Product Manager - now I know ppl automatically conclude that I was given this because of who I am, I thought so too when I joined, but after two years I think I can confidently say I haven't let down my superiors who saw the potential in me and entrusted with such a big responsibility. I was dead set on not doing a job that 90% of engineers do, I wanted to learn, explore and do something different. And I got to do exactly that, I did a lot of research on upcoming strategies that the company should move towards, analysis on the pros and cons of that and helped implement this move as well. I was also responsible for a particular patent pending facet of our product that is our Intellectual Property and a big USP with our clients. The second year I spent a lot of time marketing our products in the US. I have had the opportunity to present and demo our product to our clients like Ericsson. I have also spent close to 5 months training our clients on how to use our products.

I guess what I wanna ask is, do I have a chance at some good schools with my score and work experience. The schools that I would wanna apply are:
Harvard
ISB
Yale
Cornell
Oxford: Said
Cambridge: Judge
Tuck
Tepper
Ross

I understand that some of the above schools may be too much of a stretch, but if so I would like some advice on where to apply and where not to apply. I would love to apply to Booth and Kellogg as well but is it worth it? Am I unique enough for them, do I stand a chance? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Also should I talk about working in a company founded by my dad or not. I understand that some of the opportunities i have been given may have been cause of who I am but I also know that I have gone above and beyond every expectation my superiors have had of me. Due to that I think I was given a lot of assignments well beyond my age and experience, not because of my surname but because I had proved myself before.

Please let me know what I should do in terms of what schools to apply to and what strategy to use.

Many Thanks in advance..

prithvi10,

Thank you for your profile submission. Based on the information as presented and under the assumption of strong essays and recommendations and a GMAT score of 660, our experience indicates you would be a stretch candidate at the schools you mention.

Your biggest question is about whether or not you should mention the fact that you took a position with your father's company out of school. In short, we would strongly recommend that you mention this. There are several primary components here. First, definitely mention (by name) the reputable company whose offer you turned down coming out of school. Even though you worked at your father's company, the fact that a 'name' organization gave you an offer lends some credibility to your profile. Second, the size and growth of your father's company is important to mention as well, because many people don't know that MBA programs LOVE students who come from (successful) family businesses. Why? Graduates of programs who go on to work at family businesses are more likely to have significant wealth down the road (ownership of a large company) and could thus give back to the program. Third, you want to mention in your essays the components you described about why you chose this path and how you felt it would afford you more responsibility and breadth and the other position.

All that said about describing your current employer, I would encourage you to consider not applying this year. Instead, based on our experience, I would say you may want to work for 1-2 more years before you apply, and potentially consider a re-take of the GMAT (or several business related classes) during that period. The majority of applicants we have seen be successful with less than 3 years of full-time experience prior to matriculation are coming from industries such as strategy consulting, investment banking, and private equity. On top of this, with a below average (for top MBA programs) GMAT score and an average to below average class rank (again for top MBA programs), you will need to have other areas of your application make up for this. Another 1-2 years of work experience will allow you the opportunity to receive 1-2 more promotions, build leadership in extracurricular activities (which you did not mention), and build more quantifiable results within your current organization. Although we work with applicants with GMAT scores of less than 720 (and have many clients who have been successful in this regard to top schools), we often see MBA programs give more consideration to candidates who have taken the GMAT at least twice. This shows you made an effort to improve your score.

If you do try to apply to schools this year, I would strongly encourage you to consider reducing your application set to fewer than 9 schools. Most applicants we work with apply to somewhere between 4-6 schools, and going above 7-8 will often not allow you to research programs enough and have the caliber of applications needed for serious consideration at top programs.

In terms of your GPA, do not worry about trying to convert into a 4.0 scale. Top business schools receive (literally) thousands of applications from India each year, and they are well-versed in being able to ascertain the strength of your school and treat your grades appropriately. Also, put your graduation percentile and (if true) any distinction honors on your resume.

Finally, please keep in mind that any correspondence with MBA programs is subject to "evaluation," so just make sure that you present all information to a program (via email or any other way) in a professional verbiage with no punctuation, spelling, or grammatical errors.

Best of luck,