with, without, nor, or... Hope experts can explain..

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In the early part of the twentieth century, many vacationers found that driving automobiles and sleeping in tents allowed them to enjoy nature close at hand and tour at their own pace, with none of the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the formalities, expenses, and impersonality of hotels.

A. with none of the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the
B. with none of the restrictions of passenger trains, railroad timetables, nor
C. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables nor
D. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the
E. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or the


Hi, everyone,

Totally stucked at this question.

Anyone can give the correct answer and do some explanations?

Cheers.

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by gmat_perfect » Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:27 am

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rx_11 wrote:In the early part of the twentieth century, many vacationers found that driving automobiles and sleeping in tents allowed them to enjoy nature close at hand and tour at their own pace, with none of the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the formalities, expenses, and impersonality of hotels.

A. with none of the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the
B. with none of the restrictions of passenger trains, railroad timetables, nor
C. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables nor
D. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the
E. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or the

Hi, everyone,
Totally stucked at this question.
Anyone can give the correct answer and do some explanations?
Cheers.
Skeleton of the sentence:
Driving automobiles and sleeping allowed them to enjoy nature, with X or with Y.

--> it means that "driving and sleeping have X and Y."

The issues:

Subject + Verb + Object, With X.

--> "With X" modifies the subject of the previous clause.

==> This kills A, B, and D.

2. With X or Y is the correct idiom.

==> This kills C.

[spoiler]Answer: E[/spoiler]

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by vishalj » Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:00 am

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A. with none of the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the
B. with none of the restrictions of passenger trains, railroad timetables, nor ( Out....comma introduces modifier issue)
C. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables nor (Out...illogically saying "nor the restrictions of formalities..."; also, nor is not required with "without"...double negation or redundancy)
D. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the
E. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or the (change the meaning of the sentence. The vacationers enjoy nature without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the formalities...)

According to me, both A and D are same. The "with and without" prepositional phrase acts as a adverbial modifier. For the sake of concise structure, I will go with D.

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by Deepthi Subbu » Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:35 am

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Even I go with D.

Whats the OA?

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by Amit@EconomistGMAT » Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:39 am

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This is a classic question for vertical elimination.

Scan the first words of the answer choices: "with none of" vs. "without". "Without" wins the conciseness category, but both mean the same and are grammatically correct, so we leave this detail to help us decide between answer choices later, if necessary.

Next, the phrase "the restrictions of passenger trains" repeats in all answer choices. No eliminations.

Next, B omits the "and" from "and railroad timetables". This causes an list of "A, B, nor (X, Y, and Z)." While this division is as ugly as hell and doesn't quite match the sentence logic (it makes better sense to separate into a train list and a hotel list), it is still grammatically correct. However, it dramatically reduces B's chances.

Finally the last part offers three options:
  • B and C end with "nor" but omit the "the", creating the structure "without the X nor Y" / "with none of the X nor Y". To be parallel, it should be "without the X nor the Y." Eliminate B and C.
    A and D end with "or with the", creating the structure "(without the X) or (with the Y)" or "(with none of the X) or (with the Y)". This reinsertion of "with" makes the parallelism include the former "with"/"without" and creates a readability and meaning issue. It makes it look like the vacationers will either travel without trains or they will travel with hotel accomodation. This disagrees with the logic of the sentence. Eliminate A and D.
    E ends with "or the", creating "without the X or the Y". Parallel and grammatically correct - this is the correct answer choice.
Amit Moshe
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Economist GMAT

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by rx_11 » Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:49 am

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Amit@MasterGMAT wrote:This is a classic question for vertical elimination.

Scan the first words of the answer choices: "with none of" vs. "without". "Without" wins the conciseness category, but both mean the same and are grammatically correct, so we leave this detail to help us decide between answer choices later, if necessary.

Next, the phrase "the restrictions of passenger trains" repeats in all answer choices. No eliminations.

Next, B omits the "and" from "and railroad timetables". This causes an list of "A, B, nor (X, Y, and Z)." While this division is as ugly as hell and doesn't quite match the sentence logic (it makes better sense to separate into a train list and a hotel list), it is still grammatically correct. However, it dramatically reduces B's chances.

Finally the last part offers three options:
  • B and C end with "nor" but omit the "the", creating the structure "without the X nor Y" / "with none of the X nor Y". To be parallel, it should be "without the X nor the Y." Eliminate B and C.
    A and D end with "or with the", creating the structure "(without the X) or (with the Y)" or "(with none of the X) or (with the Y)". This reinsertion of "with" makes the parallelism include the former "with"/"without" and creates a readability and meaning issue. It makes it look like the vacationers will either travel without trains or they will travel with hotel accomodation. This disagrees with the logic of the sentence. Eliminate A and D.
    E ends with "or the", creating "without the X or the Y". Parallel and grammatically correct - this is the correct answer choice.

Thanks Amit, got it!
The OA is E

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by gmat_perfect » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:12 am

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vishalj wrote:A. with none of the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the
B. with none of the restrictions of passenger trains, railroad timetables, nor ( Out....comma introduces modifier issue)
C. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables nor (Out...illogically saying "nor the restrictions of formalities..."; also, nor is not required with "without"...double negation or redundancy)
D. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the
E. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or the (change the meaning of the sentence. The vacationers enjoy nature without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the formalities...)

According to me, both A and D are same. The "with and without" prepositional phrase acts as a adverbial modifier. For the sake of concise structure, I will go with D.
In the option D, you missed one thing.

Driving automobiles and sleeping in tents allowed them to enjoy nature close at hand and tour at their own pace, with none of the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the formalities, expenses, and impersonality of hotels.

D. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the

I have been allowed to do something, without X or with Y.

If "COMMA + VERBING" is an adverbial modifier, then it modifies the preceding clause; therefore, it retains the subject of the preceding clause.

Drop the 'without X".

Then we get.

I have been allowed to do something, with Y.

--> Meaning that I have Y.

D is faulty.

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by vishalj » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:47 pm

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Thanks guys....

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by [email protected] » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:05 pm

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Hello Everyone!

Let's tackle this question, one issue at time, so we can find the correct answer quickly! First, here is the original question with the major differences between each option highlighted in orange:

In the early part of the twentieth century, many vacationers found that driving automobiles and sleeping in tents allowed them to enjoy nature close at hand and tour at their own pace, with none of the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the formalities, expenses, and impersonality of hotels.

A. with none of the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the
B. with none of the restrictions of passenger trains, railroad timetables, nor
C. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables nor
D. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the
E. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or the

After a quick glance over the options, a couple differences become clear:

1. with none of vs. without
2. or vs. nor

Let's tackle #2 on our list because this will be the easiest to figure out: or vs. nor. Whenever you see the conjunction "nor" in a sentence, it MUST be preceded with the word "neither." Here are some examples to show how this idiom works:

X nor Y = WRONG
Neither X and Y = WRONG
Neither X or Y = WRONG
Neither X nor Y = CORRECT

Let's see if we can eliminate any options that use this idiom incorrectly:

A. with none of the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the
B. with none of the restrictions of passenger trains, railroad timetables, nor
C. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables nor
D. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the
E. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or the

We can eliminate options B & C because they don't use the proper format of the idiom "neither X nor Y."

Now that we're left with only 3 options, let's tackle #1 on our list: with none vs. without. There are two things we need to focus on here:

1. Parallelism (both items must be listed using similar wording, verb tense, structure, etc.)
2. Proper Logic (both items must make logical sense; no distorting the intended meaning)


Let's take a closer look at the remaining options with the entire sentence added back in:

A. In the early part of the twentieth century, many vacationers found that driving automobiles and sleeping in tents allowed them to enjoy nature close at hand and tour at their own pace, with none of the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the formalities, expenses, and impersonality of hotels.

This option is INCORRECT because it doesn't use parallel structure. Both phrases must be introduced with the phrase "with none of" for this to be parallel. Otherwise, it suggests that driving automobiles did not have the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables, but it did have the formalities, expenses, and impersonality of hotels, which doesn't make logical sense.

D. In the early part of the twentieth century, many vacationers found that driving automobiles and sleeping in tents allowed them to enjoy nature close at hand and tour at their own pace, without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the formalities, expenses, and impersonality of hotels.

This option is also INCORRECT because it doesn't use parallel structure by starting both phrases with "without." It also creates a logic problem by stating that driving automobiles comes without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timelines, but it comes with the formalities, expenses, and impersonality of hotels, which isn't true.

E. In the early part of the twentieth century, many vacationers found that driving automobiles and sleeping in tents allowed them to enjoy nature close at hand and tour at their own pace, without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or the formalities, expenses, and impersonality of hotels.

This is CORRECT! It's clear that ALL of the negatives of using trains or hotels go together, and that driving a car has NONE of these problems! It uses the correct "without X or Y" construction to show this clearly!

There you have it - option E is the correct choice!


Don't study for the GMAT. Train for it.

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by vietnam47 » Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:33 am

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if you want to use "nor", you need "neither " or a negative clause
I learn neith Russian or chinese
I do not learn russian, nor do I go out tonight.

if we use "or", the element after "or" is under the same rule as the element before "or".
I do not learn Russian or chinese
chinese also under "do not'. in other words, elements before and after "or" suffer the same rule.

this is most basic about nor and or.