Manhattan Book Relative Pronoun doubt

[goelmohit2002]

Hi All,

As per Manhattan,

Who = can modify only for people.
That = can modify both people and things

But as per the below question of OG-11(Q130), the reason for kicking out "A" and "C" is that "The pronoun who, rather than that, should be used to refer to people."


Can someone please help me in clarifying what is indeed correct ? Can "that" never refer to people ?
=============================================
As a result of medical advances, many people that might at one time have died as children of such infections as diphtheria, pneumonia, or rheumatic fever now live well into old age.
(A) that might at one time have died as children
(B) who might once have died in childhood
(C) that as children might once have died
(D) who in childhood might have at one time died
(E) who, when they were children, might at one time have died
===============================================







Moreover there is a question in OG-10, Q258, where "that" refers to elephant. I am really confused. Can someone please help. Below is the elephant question. In this question, the OA is "A". Does it mean that "that" can refer to animals and not people ????

=========================================
The British sociologist and activist Barbara Wootton once noted as a humorous example of income maldistribution that the elephant that gave rides to children at the Whipsnade Zoo was earning annually exactly what she then earned as director of adult education for London.

A. that the elephant that gave rides to children at the Whipsnade Zoo was earning
B. that the elephant, giving rides to children at the Whipsnade Zoo, had been earning
C. that there was an elephant giving rides to children at the Whipsnade Zoo, and it earned
D. the elephant that gave rides to children at the Whipsnade Zoo and was earning
E. the elephant giving rides to children at the Whipsnade Zoo and that it earned

Thanks
Mohit

[rseeker2]

Hi Goel...

I think 'that' comes into picture when we say.. The group that performs ..... it is people who are referred to in the group...

'who' can be used when we want to say.. The artiste who performs... here we are referring to the individual directly...

Since here we are talking about 'people', who should follow....

[goelmohit2002]

Thanks. What about the elephant example above ?

[rseeker2]

'that' can refer to animals... as when we say 'The snake that entered our compound'

[goelmohit2002]

Thanks.

Can you please let tell why "that" is wrong in the below question(OG-10, Q249)....OG says....in choices "A" and "C"...."that included elvis...." improperly modifies "many musicians"...

isn't musicians a group....if yes...then why "that" is wrong here.

==============================================

Bluegrass musician Bill Monroe, whose repertory, views on musical collaboration, and vocal style were influential on generations of bluegrass artists, was also an inspiration to many musicians, that included Elvis Presley and Jerry Garcia, whose music differed significantly from his own.

(A) were influential on generations of bluegrass artists, was also an inspiration to many musicians, that included Elvis Presley and Jerry Garcia, whose music differed significantly from

(B) influenced generations of bluegrass artists, also inspired many musicians, including Elvis Presley and Jerry Garcia, whose music differed significantly from

(C) was influential to generations of bluegrass artists, was also inspirational to many musicians, that included Elvis Presley and Jerry Garcia, whose music was different significantly in comparison to

(D) was influential to generations of bluegrass artists, also inspired many musicians, who included Elvis Presley and Jerry Garcia, the music of whom differed significantly when compared to

(E) were an influence on generations of bluegrass artists, was also an inspiration to many musicians, including Elvis Presley and Jerry Garcia, whose music was significantly different from that of

[rseeker2]

We are referring to individuals here... so the usage of 'that' would not be appropriate.

'that' can be used this way... the group that included Elvis Presley and Jerry Garcia...

musicians who performed....
the group that performed...

IMO B... what is the OA?

[goelmohit2002]

Yes OA is "B".

[hk]

Let me just enumerate some aspects of "who vs that":

1. "Who" can only be used to refer to people. Not animals, not elephants, only human beings.
2. "That" can be used to refer to everything else non-living things (wall, pen, buildings, painting etc), and animals, birds, groups etc. Note that a "group" is non-living and hence cannot be referred using "who". So that should be used.

Musicians who...
The group that....

[goelmohit2002]

Thanks HK.

Can you please help me understand in the below OG question, OA is "D"

Can we kick out "A", "B" and "E" because of whose...since "whose" cannot refer to monkeys and arms and legs are not of visitors....or there is something more to look ?


=======================================
Visitors to the park have often looked up into the leafy canopy and saw monkeys sleeping on the branches, whose arms and legs hang like socks on a clothesline.

(A) saw monkeys sleeping on the branches, whose arms and legs hang
(B ) saw monkeys sleeping on the branches, whose arms and legs were hanging
(C) saw monkeys sleeping on the branches, with arms and legs hanging
(D) seen monkeys sleeping on the branches, with arms and legs hanging
(E) seen monkeys sleeping on the branches, whose arms and legs have hung

[nikhilgirdhar]

Thanks HK.

Can you please help me understand in the below OG question, OA is "D"

Can we kick out "A", "B" and "E" because of whose...since "whose" cannot refer to monkeys and arms and legs are not of visitors....or there is something more to look ?


=======================================
Visitors to the park have often looked up into the leafy canopy and saw monkeys sleeping on the branches, whose arms and legs hang like socks on a clothesline.

(A) saw monkeys sleeping on the branches, whose arms and legs hang
(B ) saw monkeys sleeping on the branches, whose arms and legs were hanging
(C) saw monkeys sleeping on the branches, with arms and legs hanging
(D) seen monkeys sleeping on the branches, with arms and legs hanging
(E) seen monkeys sleeping on the branches, whose arms and legs have hung

I think we can eliminate 'E' because here 'whose' is ambiguous. Referring to visitors or monkeys?
A, B, and C are eliminated because 'have saw' makes no sense.

Is this explanation ok?

[goelmohit2002]

But as per above discussion....whose is not ambiguous....it cannot refer to monkeys...

is there any difference between "whose" and "who"...

or i am missing something here....

[maverick2000]

'whose' may be referring to 'branches', since 'branches' is placed immediately before 'whose'.

[nikhilgirdhar]

@mohit
whose can not refer to monkeys but for me that's not the point. I am concerned about whom 'whose' is referring to in this sentence

@
yeah whose may be referring to branches but branches can not have arms and legs...again ambiguity rules...monkeys,visitors or branches???

[goelmohit2002]

OG says that the modifier "whose" is misplaced...it should be placed directly next to monkeys.....

Basically my concern is that as per above discussion, who/whose cannot modify animals....but here it seems to modify the same....

is there something that i am missing....

[goelmohit2002]

'whose' may be referring to 'branches', since 'branches' is placed immediately before 'whose'.

But as per the above discussion....it cannot be so.....

whose cannot modify non living things .....