Ask Clear Admit

Hi,

I know that HBS 2+2 is still a very new program, so it's hard to evaluate chances but I'd appreciate any feedback you have on my application or any advice you have about the application.

I am a female college junior (rising senior) at a top 25 liberal arts college in the U.S. I am an English major (which I know is fairly atypical for b-schools), religion minor. I've taken some econ classes and will take more during my senior year. I'm a U.S. citizen but I'm of Indian origin (I don't know if that will hurt). I'm interested in marketing, particularly social media.

GPA: 3.59

My GPA is fairly low for this program, I know, but it has a very strong upward trend (my junior year GPA is a 3.92 and I expect senior year to be similarly high). I had a rough adjustment to college and if you discount my first semester freshman year, my GPA is a 3.77. One of my recs will come from a professor.

GMAT: 760 (48Q, 47V)
I just retook the GMAT so I don't know what my AWA score is. I took the GMAT last February and scored a 620 (40Q, 35V) with a 6.0 AWA so I'm not worried about this AWA score. I don't know if I should try and explain why I took the GMAT twice in my essay.

Work Experience:
Internships: I will have held two summer internships by the time I apply (I start my internship for this summer in the next few weeks). One was doing marketing for a prominent social media firm, helping to grow some new features on their site, etc. I did well there, received praise from my boss, and worked there again full time over Christmas break and was offered a summer position this year, which I decline. This summer, I'm interning at a well-established clothing company, working on social commerce -- attempting to monetize social media, help launch a microsite, and generally advancing the company into the internet age by utilizing Facebook, Twitter, blogs, etc. to try and establish a significant online presence outside of their website. I hope it will be a good experience, where I have some leadership opportunities.

School Year: Last year, I held down five part time jobs while in school, many of them for the school. I worked for a social media esque website for the school, updating with news posts, managing restaurant reviews, promoting events, etc. I also worked for the school's Media Relations Office, and was third runner up for Student Employee of the Year and will be promoted last year. I trained several new hires in the office (I've worked there for 3 years) and will get a rec from my boss in that office. I also work as a peer writing tutor, an RA (and was promoted to a higher RA position for the coming school year), and a tour guide, and next year will apply to be an admissions interviewer. I would definitely consider myself a leader on campus, but a more "quiet" type of leader -- I definitely work my way to the top of organizations but I don't usually set out to lead - it often just happens.

Extracurricular:
My jobs keep me pretty busy, as I'm sure you can imagine. I do try to stay involved in my school community, however. For the better part of last year, I organized a speaker event at my school for an annual lecture series. The idea was entirely self generated and I worked with several campus organizations, secured over $15,000 in funding (since I go to a school with <2000 students, a speaker of this magnitude is unusual), and organized an event attended by nearly 900 people (again, huge for my school, which is in a rural location). I tried to involve the community in the event as well, since we have a strained town-gown relationship, and the event was well attended by community members.

I also do several programs with youth in the local community. It's a fairly depressed economy, so there are a lot of problems that allow college students to visit elementary schools, trying to instill in children from a young age the idea of going to college. For the past two years, I've been going to a local elementary school and working with a program that teaches second graders how to read. I also do a program where I go and eat lunch with a group of five third graders once a week during the school year. Next year, I hope to start to work as a Wish Granter for the Make a Wish Foundation, though since I haven't done it yet, I likely won't include it in my application.

Goals:
I would love to combine some sort of aspect of my English major and love of literature with my interest in social media and Web 2.0. Ideally, I'd love to work with viral marketing and books - sort of helping books adapt to an age where less and less people seem to be reading "traditional" books. That's sort of a far off dream though, but I really enjoy what I do in the social media sphere, and would like to continue in it.

Why 2+2?
My mother attended HBS in the 80s, so I've heard about it since I was a little girl. Last fall, she was in Boston for her 25 year reunion, so I joined her there and had lunch with her study group. It was that moment where I realized I really, truly wanted to go to HBS. It wasn't just the success of the people in the room (though they were successful in a huge array of industry), it was the camraderie that permeated the entire room, even 25 years after they had gone to school together. Beyond what HBS offers while you are there, which is unbelievable alone, I think it also offers a community of people that lasts far longer than the time it takes to get an MBA. HBS is truly my dream school. When I stumbled across the 2+2 program, I realized what they were looking for honestly described me, and I thought it would be a great opportunity to take a shot and see where it led.

Some questions
(1) Because I'm an English major (which I think some people might view as a soft major, though my 45 page seminar paper this past semester says differently ) and I only scored in the 84th percentile for quant, do you think that will hurt me?

(2) Do I need to address taking the GMAT twice? I plan to address my GPA one of my essays - is this advisable?

(3) What would you suggest to improve/firm up my application? Do I have a shot? I'm confident my essays + recs will be strong.

Much appreciated, and thanks in advance!

Dear Myohmy,

Thanks for your post! Please see my detailed thoughts below:

I know that HBS 2+2 is still a very new program, so it's hard to evaluate chances but I'd appreciate any feedback you have on my application or any advice you have about the application.

>>I'm happy to offer my perspective. While HBS 2+2 is new, Clear Admit has a great deal of experience with the program since its inception. See the following post for some detail in this regard:
https://blog.clearadmit.com/2008/03/clea ... 2-program/

I am a female college junior (rising senior) at a top 25 liberal arts college in the U.S. I am an English major (which I know is fairly atypical for b-schools), religion minor. I've taken some econ classes and will take more during my senior year. I'm a U.S. citizen but I'm of Indian origin (I don't know if that will hurt). I'm interested in marketing, particularly social media.

>>'Top 25' is a pretty broad spectrum, but I will assume this means that you are attending a program that typically ranks in the 20's? Your English major is unique and will certainly help you stand out, however, it will also cause the adcom to more carefully inspect your transcript for evidence of exposure to quantitative coursework. I would be interested to know more about the econ classes you have taken to this point, as well as your performance in those classes. Courses you intend to take next year are fine to mention, but they will not be viewed in the same light as those courses you've already completed with grades, etc.

>>I'm not terribly concerned about your nationality/ethnic origin. I don't see this playing much of a role in the admissions decision (cetainly not as much of a role as your gender - which is a clear advantage).

GPA: 3.59. My GPA is fairly low for this program, I know, but it has a very strong upward trend (my junior year GPA is a 3.92 and I expect senior year to be similarly high). I had a rough adjustment to college and if you discount my first semester freshman year, my GPA is a 3.77. One of my recs will come from a professor.

>>Do you have any sense as to what your class rank might be (if calculated)? The fact that you are claiming that a 3.59 is 'fairly low' for your program leads me to believe that there is pretty significant grade inflation. That said, while your GPA may fall a bit below the average for a typical 2+2 admit, it's not so low that it would disqualify you or merit an explanation. My presumption is that your professor will speak to your academic aptitude and hard work on campus, etc. The GMAT result will also be weighted alongside the GPA, which should help your case.

GMAT: 760 (48Q, 47V)
I just retook the GMAT so I don't know what my AWA score is. I took the GMAT last February and scored a 620 (40Q, 35V) with a 6.0 AWA so I'm not worried about this AWA score. I don't know if I should try and explain why I took the GMAT twice in my essay.

>>Your overall score of 760 is very solid. It's clear from both tests that the math side of things is a bit harder for you, but the most recent result is sufficient (as you've crossed the 80th percentile). There is absolutely no reason for you to explain the fact that you've taken the exam twice - many applicants sit the exam multiple times. HBS is only interested in your best score.

Work Experience:
Internships: I will have held two summer internships by the time I apply (I start my internship for this summer in the next few weeks). One was doing marketing for a prominent social media firm, helping to grow some new features on their site, etc. I did well there, received praise from my boss, and worked there again full time over Christmas break and was offered a summer position this year, which I decline. This summer, I'm interning at a well-established clothing company, working on social commerce -- attempting to monetize social media, help launch a microsite, and generally advancing the company into the internet age by utilizing Facebook, Twitter, blogs, etc. to try and establish a significant online presence outside of their website. I hope it will be a good experience, where I have some leadership opportunities.

>>Your internship from last summer sounds promising. The post you've taken for this summer also sounds interesting, but I don't actually expect it to play a major role in your file (as I presume you won't have a recommendation coming from this source, and that you will be drafting your essays and application materials in the coming month, before you've got much in the way of concrete accomplishments.

>>The big question I have for you is what you did after your freshman year? Since you only mentioned the internship from last summer (post soph.year), I'm curious to know how you spent the first summer. HBS will likely be curious about this as well.

School Year: Last year, I held down five part time jobs while in school, many of them for the school. I worked for a social media esque website for the school, updating with news posts, managing restaurant reviews, promoting events, etc. I also worked for the school's Media Relations Office, and was third runner up for Student Employee of the Year and will be promoted last year. I trained several new hires in the office (I've worked there for 3 years) and will get a rec from my boss in that office. I also work as a peer writing tutor, an RA (and was promoted to a higher RA position for the coming school year), and a tour guide, and next year will apply to be an admissions interviewer. I would definitely consider myself a leader on campus, but a more "quiet" type of leader -- I definitely work my way to the top of organizations but I don't usually set out to lead - it often just happens.

>>This is all highly impressive. The fact that you've been working so much helps to build your professional profile (offering add'tl leadership experiences, etc). It also may help to offset some of the concerns you have about your academic performance.

>>One area you should pay careful attention to, however, is that you don't come across as someone who dabbles in dozens of jobs and activities but fails to exert leadership in any one area. In other words, you will need to be selective in what you choose to focus on for the application essays.

Extracurricular:
My jobs keep me pretty busy, as I'm sure you can imagine. I do try to stay involved in my school community, however. For the better part of last year, I organized a speaker event at my school for an annual lecture series. The idea was entirely self generated and I worked with several campus organizations, secured over $15,000 in funding (since I go to a school with <2000 students, a speaker of this magnitude is unusual), and organized an event attended by nearly 900 people (again, huge for my school, which is in a rural location). I tried to involve the community in the event as well, since we have a strained town-gown relationship, and the event was well attended by community members.

I also do several programs with youth in the local community. It's a fairly depressed economy, so there are a lot of problems that allow college students to visit elementary schools, trying to instill in children from a young age the idea of going to college. For the past two years, I've been going to a local elementary school and working with a program that teaches second graders how to read. I also do a program where I go and eat lunch with a group of five third graders once a week during the school year. Next year, I hope to start to work as a Wish Granter for the Make a Wish Foundation, though since I haven't done it yet, I likely won't include it in my application.

>>While it's clear that your campus jobs prevent you from extensive involvement in XCs, my sense is that you should have enough to work with here. In fact, the guest speaker project may offer some interesting leadership stories (lobbying for your case, securing funding, bringing the local community into the event, etc). The volunteer work you are engaged in sounds great. And yes, you should not mention activities that you have not yet pursued (like Make A Wish).

Goals: I would love to combine some sort of aspect of my English major and love of literature with my interest in social media and Web 2.0. Ideally, I'd love to work with viral marketing and books - sort of helping books adapt to an age where less and less people seem to be reading "traditional" books. That's sort of a far off dream though, but I really enjoy what I do in the social media sphere, and would like to continue in it.

>>You have the beginnings of a unique career vision. You'll likely want to think further about this. For example, I'm curious if you have a sense as to what you might do leading up to the MBA program, or immediately following it. In other words, what steps might you take to put you on the path towards your social media/literature goals?

Why 2+2? My mother attended HBS in the 80s, so I've heard about it since I was a little girl. Last fall, she was in Boston for her 25 year reunion, so I joined her there and had lunch with her study group. It was that moment where I realized I really, truly wanted to go to HBS. It wasn't just the success of the people in the room (though they were successful in a huge array of industry), it was the camraderie that permeated the entire room, even 25 years after they had gone to school together. Beyond what HBS offers while you are there, which is unbelievable alone, I think it also offers a community of people that lasts far longer than the time it takes to get an MBA. HBS is truly my dream school. When I stumbled across the 2+2 program, I realized what they were looking for honestly described me, and I thought it would be a great opportunity to take a shot and see where it led.

>>The fact that your mother attended the school will likely be an asset.
>>As to your fit with 2+2, keep in mind that this unique program is actually designed to target candidates who might not otherwise be thinking about b-school (scientists, engineers, liberal arts folks contemplating PhD, MD, law or policy studies, etc). As such, while I think you fit the bill in some respects, I can't help but think that the HBS adcom would feel that you have a high likelihood of reapplying to HBS in the regular admissions process if you fail to make 2+2. This makes you somewhat different from some folks in the pool.

Some questions
(1) Because I'm an English major (which I think some people might view as a soft major, though my 45 page seminar paper this past semester says differently ) and I only scored in the 84th percentile for quant, do you think that will hurt me?

>>The fact that you are an English major will cause the adcom to look more carefully for evidence of quantitative aptitude in your file. They will find this in your GMAT result (certainly respectable), your econ coursework (I'd need to know more about this) and any other relevant courses you've pursued (calculus, stats, etc?). They may also gain some insight into this from your recommendation letters. As to whether this aspect of your profile hurts you or not, I'd need to see your transcripts and have a better grasp on your profile in order to weigh in. Broadly speaking, however, I am not overly concerned about this.

(2) Do I need to address taking the GMAT twice? I plan to address my GPA one of my essays - is this advisable?

>>I would not address the GMAT. To do so would show poor judgment on your part. Keep in mind that every piece of additonal content you provide (optional essay, etc) takes up the time of the adcom. As such, the bar is very high for this sort of content. If the admissions board feels that you are wasting their time with superfluous explanations, they will not look favorably on your candidacy.

>>On that note, I am not actually sure that I would address the GPA either. I'd need to see your transcripts to weigh in on this officially, but my general sense is that it's not the right strategy.

(3) What would you suggest to improve/firm up my application? Do I have a shot? I'm confident my essays + recs will be strong.

>>See my comments above for some broad tips. Feel free to contact Clear Admit directly (by emailing your resume to [email protected]) if you'd like tailored assistance with your strategy. You will clearly need a solid set of application materials to be competitive for 2+2, but I think it can be done with the right approach.

Best of luck,

Graham

Hi Graham,

Thank you so much for your detailed advice, which I certainly will take under consideration.

My school is generally ranked around 19/20/21 and is very well respected (one of the HBS admissions folks is a grad ). I didn't mean to imply that 3.59 was low for my program -- in fact, I'll likely make cum laude or magna cum laude. I meant I thought it might be a little low for 2+2 since I'm sure u-grad GPA will be scrutinized far more than it would otherwise.

2+2 has a "what would you like us to know about your u-grad experience" question, and I thought that would be a good place, not to address my GPA per se, but to explain the strong upward trend, why my first semester freshman year GPA was so low, and that as I've become involved in more activities, I've become more focused on school, blah blah blah long story. Basically how much I've grown and how much I think I can add to HBS, as well as grow while I'm there.

My biggest weakness is that I haven't taken many quant classes. Would it be advisable for me to audit a community college calc or stats class this summer? I've taken two econ classes, and will probably take one or two more next year.

You're right that I won't have any concrete accomplishments in this year's internship but it will show up on my resume, so hopefully that will be advantageous.

Summer after freshman year, I worked at a summer camp =) Nothing too exciting, though I did ask the admissions rep who visited our campus, and she mentioned two internships was sufficient. One of my jobs at school (for the website, which is actually an outside website) is an internship as well.

I definitely don't want to come across that I've just dabbled in activities! I've actually advanced to the highest possible point, so far, in each of my jobs. (Some require you to be a senior to get this position or that.) I will definitely be careful how/what I focus on.

I would love to get at least some experience marketing for a publishing firm, which geographical + economic constraints have mostly prohibited me from doing this far (the vast majority of publishing internships are unpaid or pay ~$6-7/hr, which I simply don't have the luxury to do). I would also really enjoy getting involved in creative marketing solutions, and working for a firm well known for that, and learning what works and what doesn't.

I know I might be "too business-y" for 2+2, which worried me. However, at the event at my school, one guy who is an econ major and has had 3 or 4 finance internships in the past asked if he still had a shot. The admissions rep said yes, last year they had intended the program for more "outside of the sphere" applicants, but this year, that was less of their focus. I really wasn't planning on business school (at least, as a real life plan -- it was one of many things I was considering) until I heard about 2+2, which I suppose I should make more clear in my essays.

Thanks again, Graham, and if you have any more thoughts, I'd love to hear them!

Hi I'm applying to hbs in round 2 and would appreciate advice on my chances of getting in and my profile in general.

International applicant from India
Engineering in IIT Roorkee (top technical institute in India)
Department rank 1 at IIT Roorkee
GRE 320, planning on giving GMAT
National level swimmer
2 international internships in industry and research in Massachusetts and London
Convenor for institute technical festival
Parents never went to college
Hard economic conditions in childhood