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ngk4mba3236 Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts
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Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:30 am
isn't the following another error in option a,b & c ?

until must be followed by a time/time phrase, but in these 3 options until is followed by either non-time noun(re Disraeli) or time plus a non-time noun.

@experts - please let me know whether I'm correct ?

ngk4mba3236 Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts
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Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:31 am
OptimusPrep wrote:
This is a twisted version of the official questions with some words changed in some options.
ankur,
can you please clarify what exactly you mean by this ? (this sc is itself an official question from "Verbal review 2016")

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Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:03 am
The SC above -- SC80 in the OG for Verbal 2016 -- seems to have been posted with quite a few typos.
In my version of the book, the SC reads as follows:

ngk4mba3236 wrote:
Until 1868 and Disraeli, Great Britain had no prime ministers not coming from a landed family.

A. Until 1868 and Disraeli, Great Britain had no prime ministers not coming
B. Until 1868 and Disraeli, Great Britain had had no prime ministers who have not come
C. Until Disraeli in 1868, there were no prime ministers in Great Britain who have not come
D. It was not until 1868 that Great Britain had a prime minister -- Disraeli -- who did not come
E. It was only in 1868 and Disraeli that Great Britain had one of its prime ministers not coming
until must serve to refer to a TIME or an EVENT.
A and B: until...Disreali
C: Until Disraeli
Here, until incorrectly refers to a PERSON.
Eliminate A, B and C.

In D and E, it is serving as an EXPLETIVE.
I explain this usage in my second post here:
http://www.beatthegmat.com/sentence-structure-t282034.html

E: It was only in 1868 and Disraeli that Great Britain had one of its prime ministers not coming from a landed family.
Here, it seems to refer to the that-clause in red, conveying the following meaning:
That Great Britain had one of its prime ministers not coming from a landed family was only in 1868 and Disraeli.
This meaning is nonsensical.
Eliminate E.

D: It was not until 1868 that Great Britain had a prime minister -- Disraeli -- who did not come from a landed family.
Here, it refers to the that-clause in blue, conveying the following meaning:
That Great Britain had a prime minister -- Disraeli -- who did not come from a landed family was not until 1868.
This meaning is sensical.

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Last edited by GMATGuruNY on Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:43 am; edited 3 times in total

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Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:32 am
I have to disagree. "Landed" is not a typo in the original - a "landed family" is one that owns land.

Per the answer explanation in the book:
Quote:
This sentence explains how Disraeli marked a turning point in British history: he was the first prime minister who did not come from the landed gentry.

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Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:40 am
ceilidh.erickson wrote:
I have to disagree. "Landed" is not a typo in the original - a "landed family" is one that owns land.

Per the answer explanation in the book:
Quote:
This sentence explains how Disraeli marked a turning point in British history: he was the first prime minister who did not come from the landed gentry.
Ah, yes!
I've amended my post accordingly.

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[/img]

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ngk4mba3236 Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts
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Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:30 am
GMATGuruNY wrote:
until must serve to refer to a TIME or an EVENT.
A and B: until...Disreali
C: Until Disraeli
Here, until incorrectly refers to a PERSON.
Eliminate A and B.
gmatguru,
(thanks for correcting the sc. I've also edited my qs accordingly in the first post)
by the above reasoning,i think, we can eliminate all of A,B & C as well. right ? (I think, C should get included in your above list!)

GMATGuruNY wrote:

D: It was not until 1868 that Great Britain had a prime minister -- Disraeli -- who did not come from a landed family.
Here, it refers to the that-clause in blue, conveying the following meaning:
That Great Britain had a prime minister -- Disraeli -- who did not come from a landed family was not until 1868.
This meaning is sensical.
here, "not until 1868" means post-1868 time. right ? so, the intended meaning is only after 1868, Great Britain had a prime minister-- Disraeli -- who did not come from a landed family.

am I correct?

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Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:35 am
ngk4mba3236 wrote:
GMATGuruNY wrote:
until must serve to refer to a TIME or an EVENT.
A and B: until...Disreali
C: Until Disraeli
Here, until incorrectly refers to a PERSON.
by the above reasoning,i think, we can eliminate all of A,B & C as well. right ?
Correct.

Quote:
"not until 1868" means post-1868 time. right ? so, the intended meaning is only after 1868, Great Britain had a prime minister-- Disraeli -- who did not come from a landed family.

am I correct?
Not quite.

OA: It was not until 1868 that Great Britain had a prime minister who did not come from a landed family.
Conveyed meaning:
Every British prime minister prior to 1868 came from a landed family.
In 1868 -- for the first time in history -- Great Britain had a prime minister NOT from a landed family.

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ngk4mba3236 Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts
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Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:37 am
GMATGuruNY wrote:
Quote:
"not until 1868" means post-1868 time. right ? so, the intended meaning is only after 1868, Great Britain had a prime minister-- Disraeli -- who did not come from a landed family.

am I correct?
Not quite.

OA: It was not until 1868 that Great Britain had a prime minister who did not come from a landed family.
Conveyed meaning:
Every British prime minister prior to 1868 came from a landed family.
In 1868 -- for the first time in history -- Great Britain had a prime minister NOT from a landed family.
so, X happened not until 2000 would always mean that X happened in 2000 only -- not after 2000.

right ?

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@experts - any quick update on the above query ?

thank you!

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Sat Apr 30, 2016 2:25 am
ngk4mba3236 wrote:
GMATGuruNY wrote:
Quote:
"not until 1868" means post-1868 time. right ? so, the intended meaning is only after 1868, Great Britain had a prime minister-- Disraeli -- who did not come from a landed family.

am I correct?
Not quite.

OA: It was not until 1868 that Great Britain had a prime minister who did not come from a landed family.
Conveyed meaning:
Every British prime minister prior to 1868 came from a landed family.
In 1868 -- for the first time in history -- Great Britain had a prime minister NOT from a landed family.
so, X happened not until 2000 would always mean that X happened in 2000 only -- not after 2000.

right ?
Not quite.
It was not until 2000 that John attended college.
Conveyed meaning:
John did not attend college before 2000.
John attended college -- for the first time -- in 2000.
It is also possible that John attended college AFTER 2000.

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ngk4mba3236 Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts
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Sat Apr 30, 2016 8:54 am
GMATGuruNY wrote:
It was not until 2000 that John attended college.
Conveyed meaning:
John did not attend college before 2000.
John attended college -- for the first time -- in 2000.
It is also possible that John attended college AFTER 2000.
ok. so that means for the sc at hand,

intended meaning:
Every British prime minister prior to 1868 came from a landed family. In 1868 (or after 1868) Great Britain had a prime minister NOT from a landed family.

right ?

ngk4mba3236 Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts
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Wed May 04, 2016 10:40 am
gmatguru,
would you please quickly confirm whether I'm correct in the above post ?

thank you!

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