The author Herman Melville and the poet Walt Whitman are icons of American literature, greatly beloved by generations past and present.
(a) The author Herman Melville and the poet Walt Whitman are icons
(b) Herman Melville the author and Walt Whitman the poet are icons
(c) The author named Herman Melville and the poet named Walt Whitman are great icons
(d) The author, Herman Melville, and the poet, Walt Whitman, are icons
(e) Herman Melville, the author, and Walt Whitman, the poet, had been icons
OA is A, but can someone explain what's wrong with D?
Melville and Whitman
- Jose Ferreira
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As you probably know, if something is set off by commas, then it is removable from the sentence. Like in this sentence:
Terry, the team captain, recorded a triple double.
The phrase "the team captain" is removable from the sentence, but we are still left with a grammatically correct sentence that does not lose the original intention of the sentence's core structure.
Terry recorded a triple double.
In answer D, removing the pieces set off by commas would leave you with:
"The author and the poet are icons"
This clearly misses the point of the sentence. "The author" is not an icon; "the author Herman Melville" is an icon.
Terry, the team captain, recorded a triple double.
The phrase "the team captain" is removable from the sentence, but we are still left with a grammatically correct sentence that does not lose the original intention of the sentence's core structure.
Terry recorded a triple double.
In answer D, removing the pieces set off by commas would leave you with:
"The author and the poet are icons"
This clearly misses the point of the sentence. "The author" is not an icon; "the author Herman Melville" is an icon.
Last edited by Jose Ferreira on Mon May 18, 2009 8:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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A sounds good.The author Herman Melville and the poet Walt Whitman are icons of American literature, greatly beloved by generations past and present.
(a) The author Herman Melville and the poet Walt Whitman are icons
(b) Herman Melville the author and Walt Whitman the poet are icons
(c) The author named Herman Melville and the poet named Walt Whitman are great icons
(d) The author, Herman Melville, and the poet, Walt Whitman, are icons
(e) Herman Melville, the author, and Walt Whitman, the poet, had been icons
E changes meaning.
commas in D look clumsy.
B - is there some rule about proper nouns coming after improper nouns? in any case, A sounds better.
C. "named" seems redundant
- karmayogi
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I am bouncing back this thread as I am looking for some grammatical rule to differentiate between A and B.
MGMAT says in B, 'The modifiers "the author" and "the poet" for "Herman Melville" and "Walt Whitman" respectively are non-restrictive.' Could someone please explain why/how "the author" and "the poet" are non-restrictive? As per my understanding, when some modifier is seperated by comma or starts with which then that's non-restrictive.
MGMAT says in B, 'The modifiers "the author" and "the poet" for "Herman Melville" and "Walt Whitman" respectively are non-restrictive.' Could someone please explain why/how "the author" and "the poet" are non-restrictive? As per my understanding, when some modifier is seperated by comma or starts with which then that's non-restrictive.
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"the poet" and "the author" are non-restrictive because they are just extra information. Herman Melville and Walt Whitman are icons of American literature, greatly beloved by generations past and present. Still makes sense without "the poet" and "the author."
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Thanks everyone. I got the difference. Check the following URL: https://learnenglish.byexamples.com/noun ... s/#respond
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I read on MGMAT Forum that
https://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/res ... t8039.html
Quote from MGMAT
""""" this is a special idiom. if you preface someone's name with a noun describing their occupation (or other word describing what that person does), WITHOUT AN ARTICLE, you DO NOT use a comma.
if there's an article, you DO use a comma.
if it's an adjective, you DO use a comma.
example:
Jazz pianist and composer Thelonious Monk ... --> correct
A jazz pianist and composer, Thelonious Monk ... --> correct
Creative and original, Thelonious Monk ... --> correct
""""""
If this is correctthen the correct answer cannot be A right ??
It should be D
https://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/res ... t8039.html
Quote from MGMAT
""""" this is a special idiom. if you preface someone's name with a noun describing their occupation (or other word describing what that person does), WITHOUT AN ARTICLE, you DO NOT use a comma.
if there's an article, you DO use a comma.
if it's an adjective, you DO use a comma.
example:
Jazz pianist and composer Thelonious Monk ... --> correct
A jazz pianist and composer, Thelonious Monk ... --> correct
Creative and original, Thelonious Monk ... --> correct
""""""
If this is correctthen the correct answer cannot be A right ??
It should be D
- viidyasagar
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mmslf75 wrote:I read on MGMAT Forum that
https://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/res ... t8039.html
Quote from MGMAT
""""" this is a special idiom. if you preface someone's name with a noun describing their occupation (or other word describing what that person does), WITHOUT AN ARTICLE, you DO NOT use a comma.
if there's an article, you DO use a comma.
if it's an adjective, you DO use a comma.
example:
Jazz pianist and composer Thelonious Monk ... --> correct
A jazz pianist and composer, Thelonious Monk ... --> correct
Creative and original, Thelonious Monk ... --> correct
""""""
If this is correctthen the correct answer cannot be A right ??
It should be D
I think, this is an excellent question....seems basic but generates views
Let me explain what i have understood..... 1stly "D" has 2 commas......the rule stated above (in quotes) defends only the 1st comma, not the 2nd comma....hence
The correct sentence constructions are
1. The author Herman Melville and the poet Walt Whitman are icons
and
2. The author, Herman Melville and the poet, Walt Whitman are icons
but surely not........The author, Herman Melville, and the poet, Walt Whitman, are icons......take the 2nd comma from D and D is just as good as A
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- lunarpower
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nice catch.
i've elaborated on that post.
see this:
https://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/pos ... tml#p35618
also scroll up a bit, and see my edits to the original post.
ah, complexities
i've elaborated on that post.
see this:
https://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/pos ... tml#p35618
also scroll up a bit, and see my edits to the original post.
ah, complexities
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.
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Ron i thought i had cracked this..but now i am confused again
No article or definite article (the) we do not use a comma
Indefinite article (a, an) or adjectives then we do use a comma....
Are the above rules correct or does a comma accompany all kinds of articles (indefinite and definite) ?
Besides, what's the harm with no comma here.......
Among her friends were an author and a painter; the author Ernest Hemingway went on to become an icon of American literature.....why does the rule change when we use 2 or more descriptions?????
No article or definite article (the) we do not use a comma
Indefinite article (a, an) or adjectives then we do use a comma....
Are the above rules correct or does a comma accompany all kinds of articles (indefinite and definite) ?
Besides, what's the harm with no comma here.......
Among her friends were an author and a painter; the author Ernest Hemingway went on to become an icon of American literature.....why does the rule change when we use 2 or more descriptions?????
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To put this in context, Viidyasagar is referring to Ron's post on the MGMAT boards, where he wrote the sentence as:viidyasagar wrote:
Besides, what's the harm with no comma here.......
Among her friends were an author and a painter; the author Ernest Hemingway went on to become an icon of American literature.....why does the rule change when we use 2 or more descriptions?????
We need the comma after "the author" because we're differentiating between the author and the painter mentioned in the first half of the sentence.Among her friends were an author and a painter; the author, Ernest Hemingway, went on to become an icon of American literature...
In other words, we're not talking about "the author Ernest Hemingway" in a vacuum, we're really saying "the author, the guy I mentioned before the semicolon, went on to...".
It may seem strange, but "Ernest Hemingway" is non-restrictive in this sentence; we already know that "the author" refers to one of "her friends" and the author's name is just bonus information, so we put it between commas.
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lunarpower wrote:nice catch.
i've elaborated on that post.
see this:
https://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/pos ... tml#p35618
also scroll up a bit, and see my edits to the original post.
ah, complexities
Thanks Ron,
Understood now, that's why I had to reopen this thread !
Nice to see the edited post on Manhattan
So to sum up, be careful with "THE"
This reminds me of another doubt,
For many revisionist historians, Christopher Columbus has come to
personify devastation and enslavement in the name of progress that
has decimated native peoples of the Western Hemisphere.
A. devastation and enslavement in the name of progress that
has decimated native peoples of the Western Hemisphere
B. devastation and enslavement in the name of progress by
which native peoples of the Western Hemisphere
decimated
C. devastating and enslaving in the name of progress those native
peoples of the Western Hemisphere which in the name of progress are decimated.
D. devastating and enslaving those native peoples of the western
Hemisphere which in the name of progress are decimated.
E. the devastation and enslavement in the name of progress that
have decimated the native peoples of the Western Hemisphere.
Here, which is better A or E ?
Q1
Look closely at E .. it uses "THE" devastation and enslavement !!
any clue as to this needs to taken care while choosing between A and E ?
Q2
in the name of the progress that HAS
OR
the devastation and enslavement in the name of progress that HAVE
Q3
that" here logically refers to "devastation and enslavement" ?
Q4
I have heard of "bread and butter" as single units
if that is the case, then here also do we use the same logic ?
whoa !! i am confused too many things in this sentence...
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Q1) Because we have the final phrase "that have...", we definitely need the definite article "the".mmslf75 wrote:For many revisionist historians, Christopher Columbus has come to
personify devastation and enslavement in the name of progress that
has decimated native peoples of the Western Hemisphere.
A. devastation and enslavement in the name of progress that
has decimated native peoples of the Western Hemisphere
B. devastation and enslavement in the name of progress by
which native peoples of the Western Hemisphere
decimated
C. devastating and enslaving in the name of progress those native
peoples of the Western Hemisphere which in the name of progress are decimated.
D. devastating and enslaving those native peoples of the western
Hemisphere which in the name of progress are decimated.
E. the devastation and enslavement in the name of progress that
have decimated the native peoples of the Western Hemisphere.
Here, which is better A or E ?
Q1
Look closely at E .. it uses "THE" devastation and enslavement !!
any clue as to this needs to taken care while choosing between A and E ?
Q2
in the name of the progress that HAS
OR
the devastation and enslavement in the name of progress that HAVE
Q3
that" here logically refers to "devastation and enslavement" ?
Q4
I have heard of "bread and butter" as single units
if that is the case, then here also do we use the same logic ?
whoa !! i am confused too many things in this sentence...
If the sentence had been:
then "the" would be incorrect.For many revisionist historians, Christopher Columbus has come to personify devastation and enslavement in the name of progress.
Q2) For the purposes of the GMAT, "and" always creates a compound subject; "devastation and enslavement" is a plural subject, so we need the plural verb "have".
A good way to approach subject verb issues is to ignore everything else in the sentence. Let's compare:
andThe X and Y that have...
Clearly the first one is correct.The X and Y that has...
Q3) "in the name of progress" is a prepositional phrase; when looking at modification issues, ignore such phrases and focus on the core elements of the sentence.
Accordingly, we have:
"... the devastation and enslavement... that have..."
Q4) such cases are extremely rare and I wouldn't worry about them showing up on the GMAT, which tends to test general rules rather than exceptions (although if you're doing very well in verbal you may see some rarer idioms).
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thanks stuart,
Agree with u on 3 rd and 4th
query in
2nd
Get the point , so u mean that THAT here is actually refering to a small listof 2 entities X and Y
therefore, THE X and Y that HAVE ..
if ON GMAT --- " The X and Y that HAVE " --always correct then similarly ----- " X and Y that HAVE " will also be correct right ?
See here : the sentence https://www.beatthegmat.com/christopher- ... 80-15.html
query in
1st
Is it a rule to use THE for X and Y when followed by that have ??
I dont get the point in 1st !
Can u please explain
Agree with u on 3 rd and 4th
query in
2nd
Get the point , so u mean that THAT here is actually refering to a small listof 2 entities X and Y
therefore, THE X and Y that HAVE ..
if ON GMAT --- " The X and Y that HAVE " --always correct then similarly ----- " X and Y that HAVE " will also be correct right ?
See here : the sentence https://www.beatthegmat.com/christopher- ... 80-15.html
query in
1st
Is it a rule to use THE for X and Y when followed by that have ??
I dont get the point in 1st !
Can u please explain