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Greek writing system

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nh8404052006 Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts Default Avatar
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Greek writing system

Post Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:54 am
Elapsed Time: 00:00
  • Lap #[LAPCOUNT] ([LAPTIME])
    Although the earliest surviving Greek inscriptions written in an alphabet date from the eighth century B.C., a strong case can be made that the Greeks actually adopted alphabetic writing at least two centuries earlier. Significantly, the text of these earliest surviving Greek inscriptions sometimes runs from right to left and sometimes from left to right. Now, the Greeks learned alphabetic writing from the Phoenicians, and in the process they would surely have adopted whatever convention the Phoenicians were then using with respect to the direction of writing. Originally, Phoenicians writing ran in either direction, but by the eighth century B.C. it had been consistently written from right to left for about two centuries.

    In the argument given, the two portions in boldface play which of the following roles?

    A. The first is the position that the argument seeks to establish; the second reports a discovery that has been used to support a position that the argument opposes.

    B. The first provides evidence in support of the position that the argument seeks to establish; the second presents an assumption on which that argument relies.

    C. The first presents evidence that is used in support of the position that the argument seeks to establish; the second presents an assumption on which the argument relies.

    D. The first is an objection raised against a position that the argument opposes; the second is the position that the argument seeks to establish.

    E. The first is an objection raised against a position that the argument opposes; the second is evidence that has been used to support that position

    OA: B

    but the second portion is not an assumption, any guru please explain, and why is A wrong?

    source:
    http://www.beatthegmat.com/what-is-a-bold-faced-question-t8098.html#112539

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    maihuna Legendary Member Default Avatar
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    Post Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:24 am
    What is the source of this question, doesn't seems to be very official:

    To me in A and B one part seems questionable:

    In A: the second reports a discovery that has been used to support a position that the argument opposes: is not the case.

    The second bold face states that Greeks might have surely followed the direction of earlier...this might be sure is what makes it an assumption,

    But when one looks at B it says in first part:he first provides evidence in support of the position that the argument seeks to establish

    This first part seems totally irrelevant as first part definetly tries to establish that though written material is avialable till 8th BC actually it could be another two century earlier...

    whether the hell it seems like evidence I cant find...

    ket Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts Default Avatar
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    Post Tue May 26, 2009 10:40 pm
    I've been doing this one in OG12 and the OA is actually D not B as it was stated here. I got very confused when I read B here Smile

    s9q78g Junior | Next Rank: 30 Posts Default Avatar
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    Post Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:25 pm
    ket wrote:
    I've been doing this one in OG12 and the OA is actually D not B as it was stated here. I got very confused when I read B here Smile
    That is an assumption question ....
    This is completely different question... though the argument is same!

    mohit11 Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts
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    Post Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:09 pm
    nh8404052006 wrote:
    Although the earliest surviving Greek inscriptions written in an alphabet date from the eighth century B.C., a strong case can be made that the Greeks actually adopted alphabetic writing at least two centuries earlier. Significantly, the text of these earliest surviving Greek inscriptions sometimes runs from right to left and sometimes from left to right. Now, the Greeks learned alphabetic writing from the Phoenicians, and in the process they would surely have adopted whatever convention the Phoenicians were then using with respect to the direction of writing. Originally, Phoenicians writing ran in either direction, but by the eighth century B.C. it had been consistently written from right to left for about two centuries.

    In the argument given, the two portions in boldface play which of the following roles?

    A. The first is the position that the argument seeks to establish; the second reports a discovery that has been used to support a position that the argument opposes.

    B. The first provides evidence in support of the position that the argument seeks to establish; the second presents an assumption on which that argument relies.

    C. The first presents evidence that is used in support of the position that the argument seeks to establish; the second presents an assumption on which the argument relies.

    D. The first is an objection raised against a position that the argument opposes; the second is the position that the argument seeks to establish.

    E. The first is an objection raised against a position that the argument opposes; the second is evidence that has been used to support that position

    OA: B

    but the second portion is not an assumption, any guru please explain, and why is A wrong?

    source:
    http://www.beatthegmat.com/what-is-a-bold-faced-question-t8098.html#112539
    There is a problem with this question.

    First boldface is the main conclusion and second is a discovery to support the main conclusion.
    All options are incorrect.

    Post Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:37 pm
    mohit11 wrote:
    nh8404052006 wrote:
    Although the earliest surviving Greek inscriptions written in an alphabet date from the eighth century B.C., a strong case can be made that the Greeks actually adopted alphabetic writing at least two centuries earlier. Significantly, the text of these earliest surviving Greek inscriptions sometimes runs from right to left and sometimes from left to right. Now, the Greeks learned alphabetic writing from the Phoenicians, and in the process they would surely have adopted whatever convention the Phoenicians were then using with respect to the direction of writing. Originally, Phoenicians writing ran in either direction, but by the eighth century B.C. it had been consistently written from right to left for about two centuries.

    In the argument given, the two portions in boldface play which of the following roles?

    A. The first is the position that the argument seeks to establish; the second reports a discovery that has been used to support a position that the argument opposes.

    B. The first provides evidence in support of the position that the argument seeks to establish; the second presents an assumption on which that argument relies.

    C. The first presents evidence that is used in support of the position that the argument seeks to establish; the second presents an assumption on which the argument relies.

    D. The first is an objection raised against a position that the argument opposes; the second is the position that the argument seeks to establish.

    E. The first is an objection raised against a position that the argument opposes; the second is evidence that has been used to support that position

    OA: B

    but the second portion is not an assumption, any guru please explain, and why is A wrong?

    source:
    http://www.beatthegmat.com/what-is-a-bold-faced-question-t8098.html#112539
    There is a problem with this question.

    First boldface is the main conclusion and second is a discovery to support the main conclusion.
    All options are incorrect.
    i think the answer is B
    confused between A and B, however, in A, the author doesnt give the second boldface position to oppose anything.
    its used to suport the conclusion or the argument the author want to make

    scorpionz Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts
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    Post Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:34 am
    nh8404052006 wrote:
    Although the earliest surviving Greek inscriptions written in an alphabet date from the eighth century B.C., a strong case can be made that the Greeks actually adopted alphabetic writing at least two centuries earlier. Significantly, the text of these earliest surviving Greek inscriptions sometimes runs from right to left and sometimes from left to right. Now, the Greeks learned alphabetic writing from the Phoenicians, and in the process they would surely have adopted whatever convention the Phoenicians were then using with respect to the direction of writing. Originally, Phoenicians writing ran in either direction, but by the eighth century B.C. it had been consistently written from right to left for about two centuries.

    In the argument given, the two portions in boldface play which of the following roles?

    A. The first is the position that the argument seeks to establish; the second reports a discovery that has been used to support a position that the argument opposes.

    B. The first provides evidence in support of the position that the argument seeks to establish; the second presents an assumption on which that argument relies.

    C. The first presents evidence that is used in support of the position that the argument seeks to establish; the second presents an assumption on which the argument relies.

    D. The first is an objection raised against a position that the argument opposes; the second is the position that the argument seeks to establish.

    E. The first is an objection raised against a position that the argument opposes; the second is evidence that has been used to support that position

    OA: B

    but the second portion is not an assumption, any guru please explain, and why is A wrong?

    source:
    http://www.beatthegmat.com/what-is-a-bold-faced-question-t8098.html#112539
    IMO: B is very clearly the correct answer

    A - The first part is correct. The first boldface statement is the position that the argument is seeking to establish. However the second part is incorrect. The option states that "the second reports a discovery that has been used to support a position that the argument opposes".
    From the argument, the fact that is known is that Greeks learnt writing from the Phoenicians. However the part "...would surely have adopted whatever convention the Phoenicians were then using.." clearly indicates that this is an assumption. This is not a discovery or a fact but rather an assumption because it is being hypothesized by the author. It is very well possible that while Greeks learnt writing from Phoenicians, they could have developed their own conventions or borrowed them from someone else.

    B - First part is correct. Second part states that the second boldface statement is an assumption.

    C - First part is correct. Second part is incorrect.

    D - First part is incorrect.

    E - First part is incorrect.

    Hope this helps!

    Cheers!!

    paes Legendary Member Default Avatar
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    Post Mon Sep 06, 2010 5:47 pm
    B can not be the answer.

    B says : the second presents an assumption

    An assumption is never stated in the argument directly.

    what is the source of this question.

    abhigang Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts Default Avatar
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    Post Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:04 am
    Hi ,

    Can somebody please explain what is the difference between the answer choices B and C?

    thanks in advance..

    reply2spg Legendary Member
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    Post Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:35 pm
    I differ with you. In case of bold face questions you can have assumptions in the passage. Assumptions are never stated in passage goes only when question asks you to find an assumption.

    In B usage of 'they would surely have' tells you that it is an assumption.

    paes wrote:
    B can not be the answer.

    B says : the second presents an assumption

    An assumption is never stated in the argument directly.

    what is the source of this question.

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    David@VeritasPrep GMAT Instructor
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    Post Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:23 pm
    Ironically I was just answering this question today in a different posting. The link to that is http://www.beatthegmat.com/one-cr-doubt-expert-help-needed-t65780.html

    I include the posting below because this question has gotten a little confused and this might help:

    "Explanation follows, but first we need to clarify a couple of things.

    There is a very similar question that is number 77 in the OG 12th edition. In that question the correct answer does not mention an assumption.

    I also found the question that you have posted here in several forums. But with different answer choices. None of the answer choices listed above are correct. Please refer to the ones that follow.

    Here is that Question:

    "Although the earliest surviving Greek inscriptions written in an alphabet date from the eighth century B.C., a strong case can be made that the Greeks actually adopted alphabetic writing at least two centuries earlier. Significantly, the text of these earliest surviving Greek inscriptions sometimes runs from right to left and sometimes from left to right. Now, the Greeks learned alphabetic writing from the Phoenicians, and in the process they would surely have adopted whatever convention the Phoenicians were then using with respect to the direction of writing. Originally, Phoenician writing ran in either direction, but by the eighth century B.C. it had been consistently written from right to left for about two centuries.

    In the argument given, the two portions in boldface play which of the following roles?

    A. The first is the position that the argument seeks to establish; the second reports a discovery that has been used to support a position that the argument opposes.

    B. The first is the position that the argument seeks to establish; the second presents an assumption on which the argument relies.

    C. The first presents evidence that is used in support of the position that the argument seeks to establish; the second presents an assumption on which the argument relies.

    D. The first is an objection raised against a position that the argument opposes; the second is the position that the argument seeks to establish.

    E. The first is an objection raised against a position that the argument opposes; the second is evidence that has been used to support that position."



    You can see that the portions in bold are the same, but the answer choices are different. The question, as you posted it does not have a correct answer, since the main conclusion of the argument is the first portion in bold.

    The correct answer to this question is B as written directly above.

    As to your main question of how the second bold portion can be an assumption, in this case, the second bold portion is stated not as a fact, but as an inference or additional deduction made in light of the fact stated earlier in the sentence that "the Greeks learned alphabetic writing from the Phoenicians." This second bold portion is not even a proper inference because there is not enough information to state that this must be true.

    Because the second portion is not stated as a fact, but as an inference or conclusion that has been drawn - based on insufficient evidence, then it is an assumption. In this case the word "assumption" means that the statement is made with insufficient evidence and so the truth of the statement is not supported but is taken for granted, or "assumed." A fact cannot be assumed if it is stated, but other statements can.

    I hope this helps to shed some light on the subject...

    Nice comments by reply2spg and mohit11 !!

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    paes Legendary Member Default Avatar
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    Post Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:20 pm
    David@

    B says that : second part is an assumption.

    But thumb rule is that assumptions are never stated in a argument.

    Is this a OG problem ?
    I have not seen in any OG bold face problem where a bold face argument is referring to an assumption.

    paes Legendary Member Default Avatar
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    Post Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:23 pm
    reply2spg wrote:
    I differ with you. In case of bold face questions you can have assumptions in the passage. Assumptions are never stated in passage goes only when question asks you to find an assumption.

    In B usage of 'they would surely have' tells you that it is an assumption.

    paes wrote:
    B can not be the answer.

    B says : the second presents an assumption

    An assumption is never stated in the argument directly.

    what is the source of this question.
    Sudhanshu,

    thanks for your comment.
    Can you please refer me an OG problem where assumptions are directly stated.
    (Whatever I have written, I have read in a reliable material, so I am asking some OG reference.)

    reply2spg Legendary Member
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    Post Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:19 pm
    You are taking me in wrong way. Your point is correct that assumptions are not stated in argument. However, here author is not assuming anything. Author has mentioned something that was assumed by Greeks in past. You will never get an assumption made by author in passage. But in BF questions author can state the assumptions made by others

    Hope this answers your question!!!
    paes wrote:
    reply2spg wrote:
    I differ with you. In case of bold face questions you can have assumptions in the passage. Assumptions are never stated in passage goes only when question asks you to find an assumption.

    In B usage of 'they would surely have' tells you that it is an assumption.

    paes wrote:
    B can not be the answer.

    B says : the second presents an assumption

    An assumption is never stated in the argument directly.

    what is the source of this question.
    Sudhanshu,

    thanks for your comment.
    Can you please refer me an OG problem where assumptions are directly stated.
    (Whatever I have written, I have read in a reliable material, so I am asking some OG reference.)

    _________________
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    (have lot of things to learn from all of you)

    paes Legendary Member Default Avatar
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    Post Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:15 pm
    Thanks Sudhanshu.

    Although I am not fully convinced but I take your reasoning.

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