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Even though Clovis points

This topic has 3 expert replies and 3 member replies
melguy Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts
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Even though Clovis points

Post Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:37 am
Elapsed Time: 00:00
  • Lap #[LAPCOUNT] ([LAPTIME])
    Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.

    A. Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.
    B. Although named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, Clovis points are spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces and have been found all over North America.
    C. Named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932, Clovis points, spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto the faces, have been found all over North America.
    D. Spear points with longitudinal grooves that are chipped onto the faces, Clovis points, even though named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, but were found all over North America.
    E. While Clovis points are spear points whose faces have longitudinal grooves chipped into them, they have been found all over North America, and named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932.


    Please help me with the problem. Also, please justify why are B and D the wrong answer choices.
    Also, what is their referring back to A. How is their used correctly here?

    OA is A.

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    Post Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:02 pm
    Hi melguy,

    In this SC, we're dealing with a variety of grammar and style rules. The commas that you see are a clue that we're probably going to deal with "modification rules". As you read the answers, there's also some style issues ("active voice" and "comparisons")

    As a general rule, you want to place your subject/noun earlier in the sentence than everything else (this is what's called "active voice"). There are some exceptions, of course, especially when you deal with modification rules. You also have to consider how a sentence "flows." This is sometimes tough to teach to non-native English speakers, but I'll do my best to point out when an answer sounds "clunky" and to explain why.

    The order of the ideas in the sentences is a good way to figure out of something is "clunky"
    A - Contrast phrase, Subject, modifier/description, description, comparison = This SOUNDS CORRECT

    B - Contrast phrase with comparison (and date), Subject that leads into a run-on phrase = CLUNKY. The position of the "1932" is awkward and the rest of the sentence would need some commas to break it up.

    C - Modifier/description (and date), Subject, modifier/description, more description. = STYLE/INTENT PROBLEM. Same problem with the position of "1932". If the points were discovered in New Mexico, then why mention that they've been found all over North America? The "intent" of the sentence is that there's a comparison between NM and America and this sentence does not have that comparison.

    D - Modifier/description, Subject, comparison, description = CLUNKY. "...grooves THAT are chipped onto THE faces" has a couple of problems on its own, regardless of the rest of the sentence.

    E - Contrast word, Subject, modifier, comparison = CLUNKY. The last two parts of the sentence don't provide the necessary contrast that is implied.

    The word "their" (in answer A) refers to "their faces", meaning the Clovis spear points.

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    Thanked by: melguy
    Post Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:38 am
    melguy wrote:
    Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.

    A. Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.
    B. Although named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, Clovis points are spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces and have been found all over North America.
    C. Named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932, Clovis points, spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto the faces, have been found all over North America.
    D. Spear points with longitudinal grooves that are chipped onto the faces, Clovis points, even though named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, but were found all over North America.
    E. While Clovis points are spear points whose faces have longitudinal grooves chipped into them, they have been found all over North America, and named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932.
    B and D: where first discovered.
    A where-clause must contain a subject.
    Eliminate B and D.

    C and E: have been first discovered in 1932.
    The present perfect (have been discovered) cannot serve to refer to a specific time (in 1932).
    Eliminate C and E.

    The correct answer is A.

    In the OA, they (subject pronoun) clearly refers to the subject of the preceding clause (Clovis points).

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    Thanked by: melguy, sagarock, glamupdays
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    melguy Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts
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    Post Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:15 am
    Thanks to both experts for your valuable input and time. Makes perfect sense now.

    Actually when I read 'their faces' I was expecting human beings as subject Razz Hence, I was unable to make any sense (Answer choice A).

    notyet Newbie | Next Rank: 10 Posts Default Avatar
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    Post Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:04 am
    GMATGuruNY wrote:
    melguy wrote:
    Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.

    A. Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.
    B. Although named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, Clovis points are spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces and have been found all over North America.
    C. Named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932, Clovis points, spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto the faces, have been found all over North America.
    D. Spear points with longitudinal grooves that are chipped onto the faces, Clovis points, even though named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, but were found all over North America.
    E. While Clovis points are spear points whose faces have longitudinal grooves chipped into them, they have been found all over North America, and named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932.
    B and D: where first discovered.
    A where-clause must contain a subject.
    Eliminate B and D.

    C and E: have been first discovered in 1932.
    The present perfect (have been discovered) cannot serve to refer to a specific time (in 1932).
    Eliminate C and E.

    The correct answer is A.

    In the OA, they (subject pronoun) clearly refers to the subject of the preceding clause (Clovis points).
    Hi! Nice explanation!
    But unfortunately I eliminated correct choice A when I noticed " they are named ... where they were first discovered in 1932. "
    I think it should be "they were named" ???
    It's still confusing to me and how should I avoid these fault...
    Thank you!! Smile

    Post Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:49 am
    notyet wrote:
    Hi! Nice explanation!
    But unfortunately I eliminated correct choice A when I noticed " they are named ... where they were first discovered in 1932. "
    I think it should be "they were named" ???
    It's still confusing to me and how should I avoid these fault...
    Thank you!! Smile
    To express a GENERAL TRUTH -- something that is true now and is expected to remain true in the future -- we use the SIMPLE PRESENT TENSE.
    OA: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.
    Here, are named (simple present tense) serves to express why the spear points under discussion are known as Clovis points: Clovis is where the spear points were first discovered.
    Since this name constitutes a GENERAL TRUTH about the spear points, the usage of the simple present tense is warranted.

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    Post Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:52 am
    Usage of present perfect tense mandates reference point in present.

    A. Even though Clovis points have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.

    reference point in present-->they are named for the New Mexico site

    Following version wouldn't have been incorrect either:
    Even though Clovis points are found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.

    Even though Clovis points are found all over North America
    is a fact
    they are named for the New Mexico site is also a fact.
    Simple present tense is used to communicate a fact.

    Simple past tense used in conjunction with present perfect tense can be problematic.

    Keep simple present tense with simple present tense, if both pieces of informations are fact.
    or
    Simple present tense with present perfect tense to show reference point in present.

    PS:
    where they were first discovered in 1932.
    For an event happened at a specific point of time in past, simple past tense is appropriate( or at times past perfect tense if conditions specific for its usage are met).

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