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Register now and save up to $200 Available with Beat the GMAT members only code • Magoosh Study with Magoosh GMAT prep Available with Beat the GMAT members only code • Free Trial & Practice Exam BEAT THE GMAT EXCLUSIVE Available with Beat the GMAT members only code • 5 Day FREE Trial Study Smarter, Not Harder Available with Beat the GMAT members only code • Get 300+ Practice Questions 25 Video lessons and 6 Webinars for FREE Available with Beat the GMAT members only code • Free Veritas GMAT Class Experience Lesson 1 Live Free Available with Beat the GMAT members only code • 1 Hour Free BEAT THE GMAT EXCLUSIVE Available with Beat the GMAT members only code ## 48-22 --> 580 what a bad score with that math result! This topic has 7 member replies nicogmat92 Junior | Next Rank: 30 Posts Joined 05 Jan 2015 Posted: 13 messages #### 48-22 --> 580 what a bad score with that math result! Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:24 am Elapsed Time: 00:00 • Lap #[LAPCOUNT] ([LAPTIME]) Hello Everybody, Two days ago i did my second Gmat exam. My dream was a 700, but with a 650 i was going to be happy anyway. I did a good essay, a good IR (4) without using much fatigue. I started math, in which, thanks to the EMPOWERgmat course, I am good, and i noticed that I was doing good. But than my monster started, the verbal part. I am not English, but I spent a lot of time abroad, especially in US and in England. I all my preparation Exams I did 27-30-33, not a good result, but I know that, with my math could be a good 650. To improve it, I did the PrincetonReview course, and also the EMPOWERgmat course, but I did not improve it at all. I use to read in English (magazines and books) and also to watch Movies and Tv in English. What do you suggest? I really need a good score to enter in the university of my dream, and my next exam in March is going to be the last opportunity to get into, according to the deadline. Thank you for your answers. Nico Quote: EMPOWERgmat Quote: PrincetonReview Need free GMAT or MBA advice from an expert? Register for Beat The GMAT now and post your question in these forums! Marty Murray Legendary Member Joined 03 Feb 2014 Posted: 2037 messages Followed by: 129 members Thanked: 948 times GMAT Score: 800 Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:03 am I have three ideas. Keep reading in English, articles from the Wall Street Journal, books, anything you find interesting. Do hundreds of verbal practice questions. That way you will develop more skill in seeing what you have to see in order to get them right. Just make sure that you really make the questions count by carefully working on them and then, whether you get the wrong or right answer, seeking to understand what is going on in each question. One source of questions is the Veritas question bank. There are plenty more in the Official Guides and elsewhere. Finally, I don't really know, but maybe e-GMAT would be a good tool for you. Here are two articles that could be useful to you in multiple ways, including as reading practice. http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-shrink-on-the-seattle-seahawks-sideline-1422402204 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-niles-phd/visualization-goals_b_878424.html _________________ Marty Murray GMAT Coach m.w.murray@hotmail.com http://infinitemindprep.com/ In Person in the New York Area and Online Worldwide ### GMAT/MBA Expert Rich.C@EMPOWERgmat.com Elite Legendary Member Joined 23 Jun 2013 Posted: 8695 messages Followed by: 460 members Thanked: 2729 times GMAT Score: 800 Sat Jan 31, 2015 10:50 am Hi nicogmat92, I went back and re-read your earlier posts, so we can compare your prior GMAT score (and how you approached that Test) with your current score (and how you approached the GMAT this time). In about one month of extra study time, you went form a 530/Q44/V22 to a 580/Q48/V22. These numbers are important because they showcase some important points: 1) The 50-point improvement is a nice 'bump up' in score, especially considering that you were probably a bit 'burned out' from your prior studies. 2) The Q48 shows that you have the ability to train and score at a higher level, so even though you only spent 1 extra month studying, you were able to retain the new tactics/lessons that you learned and use them correctly on Test Day. 3) The V22 on BOTH GMATs shows that something is "off" about how you approach the Verbal section. It might just be that you have not put in enough time yet to raise your Verbal Score (and accomplish your overall goals). It might be that you're too tired by the time you get to the Verbal section on Test Day, so you can't do the required work to get the points. It might be that whatever "bad habits" you've developed during your early studies are still there (and hurting your performance). There might also be an issue if you're trying to "mesh" two different sets of tactics (EMPOWER's and Princeton's). Thankfully, Business Schools don't care if you take the GMAT more than once, so we can treat this GMAT result as a learning experience. Before you retest though, we really need to know more about how you deal with the Verbal section: On this latest GMAT: 1) Did you skip over any questions in the Verbal section? 2) Did you have to rush to finish the Verbal section (and guess on a bunch of questions)? 3) Did you leave any questions unanswered? 4) How often do you find yourself "narrowing down the answers to 2 choices BEFORE you pick one?" 5) What did you do during the 8-minute break before the Verbal section? 6) What day of the week and what time of day was your GMAT? GMAT assassins aren't born, they're made, Rich _________________ Contact Rich at Rich.C@empowergmat.com ### Top Member VivianKerr GMAT Instructor Joined 17 Dec 2010 Posted: 1035 messages Followed by: 364 members Thanked: 473 times Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:52 pm Hey Nico, To be honest, it doesn't sound like you used the best Verbal materials out there. I would actually recommend you STOP doing the following: (1) reading lots of non-GMAT material just to improve your English, and (2) answering tons of GMAT Verbal questions. Neither of those things will quickly improve your GMAT Verbal score. Here's what will: 1) Doing the MGMAT SC book cover to cover. Know the specific grammar rules tested on the GMAT, and know them cold. 2) Do either a MGMAT or a GMATPrep CAT once a week, complete an Error Log for that CAT, and identify your 3 weakest Verbal concept areas for that CAT. Spend the next 6 days MASTERING those 3 concepts using every targeted resource at your disposal, but starting with the OG and MGMAT books. Deep-dive on a limited number of weak concepts and you can't help but improve. Stop throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks. 3) Step up your strategies. How are you approaching SC, CR, and RC?? What is currently not serving you and needs adjusting? How can you be more thorough, more accurate? What TYPES of concepts and questions are you missing and WHERE in your strategy is the breakdown occuring? REVIEW. REVIEW. REVIEW. Read this blog for advice: https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/articles/analyze-practice-problem.cfm 4) Do Pacing drills on ALL Verbal questions outside of practice CATs! Here's a blog I just wrote on this for more info: http://gmatrockstar.com/2015/01/31/sentence-correction-the-importance-of-pacing-drills/ 5) Know ALL the major CR question types, and how they differ. You should not approach an Assumption CR in the same way you would a Boldface CR or a Paradox CR. These are all VERY different Q-types, and your JOB for each of these is SUPER different. You should be able to classify the type of CR by the question-stem, and based on that have a strong preconception of what you'll need to analyze in the paragraph, how you'll take notes on your scratch pad using notes/symbols, and what the correct answer will DO and LOOK LIKE. I hope this gives you some food for thought. Simply watching movies in English will not help your GMAT Verbal score AT ALL. Best, Vivian Attachments This post contains an attachment. You must be logged in to download/view this file. Please login or register as a user. _________________ Vivian Kerr GMAT Rockstar, Tutor http://www.GMATrockstar.com http://www.yelp.com/biz/gmat-rockstar-los-angeles Former Kaplan and Grockit instructor, freelance GMAT content creator, now offering affordable, effective, Skype-tutoring for the GMAT at$150/hr. Contact: GMATrockstar@gmail.com

Thank you for all the "thanks" and "follows"!

Marty Murray Legendary Member
Joined
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Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:45 pm
While Vivian seems to have a particular affinity for the MGMAT sentence correction guide, the truth is, Nico, you have already used two different resources, resources that combined include discussion of most of if not all of the rules that are discussed in the MGMAT guide. Really, even the raggediest GMAT prep guide I have seen does a half decent job of explaining rules.

So is learning the same rules over again the best use of your time, or would your time be better spent seeking to apply those rules, many times, and, given your need to improve your English, gaining familiarity with the language in the process? Yes, you need to understand the rules. At the same time, a great way, maybe the only way, to get to "know them cold" is to make use of a forum for applying them.

That's something you might do well to consider.

What I do find to be of value in what Vivian said is the emphasis on analyzing what you are doing in order to find weak areas on which to work and in order to figure out how you can improve your strategies.

In any case, from what I have seen, for improving one's game there's nothing like playing the game a lot, and that may be especially true in your case, because not only do you need to get better at handling the specifics of this game but also you need to get much better at simply sorting out things written in English and noticing the types of details and structural patterns you need to notice in order to get these questions right.

_________________
Marty Murray
GMAT Coach
m.w.murray@hotmail.com
http://infinitemindprep.com/
In Person in the New York Area and Online Worldwide

nicogmat92 Junior | Next Rank: 30 Posts
Joined
05 Jan 2015
Posted:
13 messages
Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:41 am
Rich.C@EMPOWERgmat.com wrote:
Hi nicogmat92,

I went back and re-read your earlier posts, so we can compare your prior GMAT score (and how you approached that Test) with your current score (and how you approached the GMAT this time). In about one month of extra study time, you went form a 530/Q44/V22 to a 580/Q48/V22.

These numbers are important because they showcase some important points:

1) The 50-point improvement is a nice 'bump up' in score, especially considering that you were probably a bit 'burned out' from your prior studies.
2) The Q48 shows that you have the ability to train and score at a higher level, so even though you only spent 1 extra month studying, you were able to retain the new tactics/lessons that you learned and use them correctly on Test Day.
3) The V22 on BOTH GMATs shows that something is "off" about how you approach the Verbal section. It might just be that you have not put in enough time yet to raise your Verbal Score (and accomplish your overall goals). It might be that you're too tired by the time you get to the Verbal section on Test Day, so you can't do the required work to get the points. It might be that whatever "bad habits" you've developed during your early studies are still there (and hurting your performance).

There might also be an issue if you're trying to "mesh" two different sets of tactics (EMPOWER's and Princeton's).

Thankfully, Business Schools don't care if you take the GMAT more than once, so we can treat this GMAT result as a learning experience. Before you retest though, we really need to know more about how you deal with the Verbal section:

On this latest GMAT:
1) Did you skip over any questions in the Verbal section?
2) Did you have to rush to finish the Verbal section (and guess on a bunch of questions)?
3) Did you leave any questions unanswered?
4) How often do you find yourself "narrowing down the answers to 2 choices BEFORE you pick one?"

5) What did you do during the 8-minute break before the Verbal section?
6) What day of the week and what time of day was your GMAT?

GMAT assassins aren't born, they're made,
Rich
Hey Rich,
I did my test at 1 p.m., the same hour in which I use to do my preparation tests. Was a Thursday, but this is not a problem, because I am only studying the Gmat, so all my days, from Monday to Sunday, are equal, with the same routine.
In the break I did a bit of gymnastic, as you suggest, ate an energy bar, drank a water and a bit of redbull.
I am able to manage my time, I finished 5-7 minute before the end of the 75 minutes, and I answered, without skipping, to all the questions.
Well I have to admit, that is not rare that I have to narrow down the answers to 2 choices BEFORE picking one, and often I became a little bit confusing when I do that.

nicogmat92 Junior | Next Rank: 30 Posts
Joined
05 Jan 2015
Posted:
13 messages
Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:48 am
Marty Murray wrote:
While Vivian seems to have a particular affinity for the MGMAT sentence correction guide, the truth is, Nico, you have already used two different resources, resources that combined include discussion of most of if not all of the rules that are discussed in the MGMAT guide. Really, even the raggediest GMAT prep guide I have seen does a half decent job of explaining rules.

So is learning the same rules over again the best use of your time, or would your time be better spent seeking to apply those rules, many times, and, given your need to improve your English, gaining familiarity with the language in the process? Yes, you need to understand the rules. At the same time, a great way, maybe the only way, to get to "know them cold" is to make use of a forum for applying them.

That's something you might do well to consider.

What I do find to be of value in what Vivian said is the emphasis on analyzing what you are doing in order to find weak areas on which to work and in order to figure out how you can improve your strategies.

In any case, from what I have seen, for improving one's game there's nothing like playing the game a lot, and that may be especially true in your case, because not only do you need to get better at handling the specifics of this game but also you need to get much better at simply sorting out things written in English and noticing the types of details and structural patterns you need to notice in order to get these questions right.
So, according to you, I have to improve my verbal preparation, without buying a new course, but just trying to know better the course that I have?
And I also have to use the forum and studying better my preparation test errors, continuing to read english newspapers and magazines?

Marty Murray Legendary Member
Joined
03 Feb 2014
Posted:
2037 messages
Followed by:
129 members
Thanked:
948 times
GMAT Score:
800
Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:16 am
Quote:
So, according to you, I have to improve my verbal preparation, without buying a new course, but just trying to know better the course that I have?
And I also have to use the forum and studying better my preparation test errors, continuing to read english newspapers and magazines?
That's basically how I see it. While you might indeed benefit from, at times, using another resource, that is not the same as doing everything over. I actually recommend using all kinds of resources once you have noticed a weak area. If you use a GMAT prep resource and still don't get how a certain rule works, you can even look up that rule up online and find all kinds of related discussion. For instance, I found this, a great little resource for understanding placement of modifiers. http://owlet.letu.edu/grammarlinks/modifiers/modifier2d.html

The second part, especially what you said about using the forum and studying your errors, has a good tone to it and sounds like a formula for success. The core of this project is your developing skill in getting the questions right. So that's what needs to be the basis of what you do. If you get one wrong, that right there is something on which to work.

I guess I should add this. Even the major test prep companies regularly create verbal questions that themselves contain errors. So if you just don't get something, it could be the question rather than your weakness. The thought of a person who is not a native speaker trying to figure out one of those flawed questions is comical and horrifying at the same time.

By the way, something you said above is not parallel. "I also have to use the forum and studying better my preparation test errors" use the forum is not parallel to studying better.

Look at them in this simple sentence in which they are more obviously not parallel. I need to use the forum and studying errors.

Here's a more correct version that uses the parallel forms to use the forum and to study errors. I need to use the forum and to study errors.

Here's a longer list. I need to use the forum, to study errors and to understand parallelism.

Here's a parallel way to say what you said. I also have to use the forum and to better study my preparation test errors.

Maybe parallelism of lists is one area for you work on.

_________________
Marty Murray
GMAT Coach
m.w.murray@hotmail.com
http://infinitemindprep.com/
In Person in the New York Area and Online Worldwide

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