Confused about where to apply

[InfiniteParadox]

Hello,

I'm going to apply for business schools by the end of this year and am aware of the first round deadlines I'm aiming for. My GMAT date is set for September 11th, and I was wondering what schools I should be targeting. I am interested in an MBA in either HR, Marketing or General Management and am aiming for a 700+ score.

Like everyone else, I'd like to apply for the best schools, so I was wondering how high can I aim for with my profile. Realistically I'd rather apply for schools I have a good chance of getting into than aiming too high and falling short. I've shortlisted a couple of schools I'm interested in, please let me know the chances I have and if I've missed something I should be looking at.

Here's the schools:
Harvard
Stanford
Wharton
Columbia
INSEAD
Booth
Kellogg
Yale
Tuck
Fuqua
NYU Stern
IESE
HEC Paris

Johnson/Cornell
Oxford/Said
Virginia/Darden
Georgetown
UCLA Anderson
Michigan/Ross
SDA Bocconi

I realize this is a lot of schools and I honestly have no idea about what schools are good for the specializations I'm looking for. I had sent my CV for review to Oxford and the consultant replied that my work experience, though not full time, counts.

My profile is as follows:

EDUCATION
Bachelor of Technology in Electronics and Communications Engineering at Geethanjali College of Engineering and Technology (Jawaharlal Nehru Technological University, Hyderabad, Andhra Pradesh), Class of 2014 - 65% aggregate currently.

11th and 12th Grade from Narayana Junior College (Board of Intermediate Education, Andhra Pradesh), Class of 2010 - 65%

10th Grade from Kendriya Vidyalaya, Bolarum (Central Board of Secondary Education, New Delhi), Class 0f 2008 - 84%


POSITIONS HELD CURRENTLY
Chief Operating Officer of Pyrite Technologies Pvt. Ltd., a self started company specializing in web design, search engine optimization, online marketing and branding since August 2012.

Administrator, Editor and Author for CoolPCTips, a Page Rank 5 technology blog with verified Google Authorship, December 2010-present.

City Trainer, Hyderabad for 2013-2014 as a part of Make A Difference (MAD), an NGO working for the upliftment of children at risk.

Microsoft Student Partner for 2012-2013.

Technology Fellow at Nokia Create to Inspire Fellowship, 2012-2013.

Human Resources Head at the Entrepreneurship Cell of Geethanjali College of Engineering and Technology as part of NEN (National Entrepreneurship Network), 2013-2014.


POSITIONS HELD IN THE PAST
Centre Head at Forum for Street Children as a part of Make A Difference (MAD), 2012-2013.

Team Leader for Online and Technology department of the Entrepreneurship Cell of Geethanjali College of Engineering and Technology, 2011-2013.


OTHER EXPERIENCE
Event Manager for Maxthon India promotion at Hyderabad, Andhra Pradesh, India - February-April 2012.

College fest coordinator, 2011-2014.

Hyderabad City Recruitment team, Make A Difference (MAD) - 2012-Present.

ACCOLADES
Selected as one of Top 50 startups in India at NEN (National Entrepreneurship Network) First Dot 2012, in Chennai, Tamil Nadu; powered by Tata.

Awarded 7th position among the top 20 startups in India at the Global Student Entrepreneurship Awards 2011, Coimbatore, Tamil Nadu.

Selected as one of Top 30 startups in India at NEN (National Entrepreneurship Network) First Dot 2011 in Chennai, Tamil Nadu; powered by IBM.

Regional topper, 10th grade Social Studies in Central Board of Secondary Education Examinations, 2008.


VOLUNTEER WORK
June 2012 to present - English teacher at Make A Difference (MAD), teaching children aged 9-15.

Any responses are welcome, thanks in advance!

[money9111]

wait... you've never held a full-time job?

[InfiniteParadox]

Not full time, no. I'm still in college.

[money9111]

1st. That fact will take you out of the running for a lot of those schools as they require work experience. Which ones explicitly? I'm not sure as I have not done the research.

2nd. "I am interested in an MBA in either HR, Marketing or General Management and am aiming for a 700+ score." That's a wide range of interests. HR, Marketing, or GM? You'll have to narrow that down asap.

3rd. How did you come up with your list of schools?

4th. Why do you want an MBA?

Keep in mind that R1 deadlines aren't at the end of this year but rather in September/October. It sounds like you have a lot of researching to do before submitting an application for any round. The questions posed above are all valid questions that I would ask anyone who I am working with on their application. We will all be able to offer more advice with a little more insight.

Looking forward to your response.

[InfiniteParadox]

Hello,

1. I've gone through every school on the list and they don't say that work experience is required specifically. The couple of schools that do aren't on the list, such as Tepper, Rotterdam, LBS and more.

2. I am interested in the 3 specializations and was sort of on the fence, but I'd say GM is what I'm looking for. If a choice has to be made, HR is my second one.

3. I looked at a couple of lists that ranks schools on the basis of specializations and that's where I came up with it. As mentioned above, even I'm not so sure about it, so was looking for someone to help me with a shortlist as well, if that's possible.

4. I want to do an MBA to take my startup company forward and I also have another initiative in mind related to a digital education. I was thinking of adding it to my company as a department of sorts or start it as another startup.

And yes, I am aware of the R1 deadlines and after listening to some advice I have decided to apply for R2 instead because I don't want to rush it. Thank you for all your help!

[money9111]

Ah okay your last post is a bit more helpful.

1. Yeah, the schools won't say that work experience is required specifically because remember what their goals are. They want to have the most people apply to their schools. If they explicitly say that work experience is required then they won't get as many applications. Also, there are special cases where people do not have work experience. As I've stated before, in my class of 274 there were some people who were straight out of undergrad. So it does happen. I will say however that none of my classmates, straight out of college, were international students.

2. So if general management is what you're looking for then I would say any of those b-schools would fit your needs. If HR changes to be the most important, then I would go through each school's websites to see how HR practices weave themselves into the B-School curriculum. I can say though that you may also want to look to see if you can take classes outside of each business school. I say this because for example, at Cornell there is a School of Industrial Labor Relations (ILR) and some students do a dual degree. This wouldn't necessarily be called out on the website of each business school, but if you do the due diligence you can find these types of programs.

These are the types of things that can also help you convey FIT with a particular school because it shows A) that you've done your research and B) there are few schools that would offer a combination of opportunities for its students.

3. Thank you for being candid about how you came up with your list. You'll hear time and time again that applicants should not use the ranking as a way to determine which schools to apply too. But I do like your thought process in that using the rankings to come up with an extensive list is usually where most people start and I don't think that there's anything wrong with that.

4. If you want an MBA to take your start-up company forward - Why do you need an MBA? Yes, I'm going to ask again because it's very important especially for people already on the path that they see themselves on post-MBA = entrepreneurship. Also, with that, I now am curious as to why HR is a specialization that you're interested in. I'm not challenging you on that but am simply curious.

5. In order to cut down the schools on your list I ask you this. What are you looking for in an MBA program BESIDES a rigorous curriculum - which they all provide? Tell me more about how you learn best... do you think you would want a large school vs. small school? Etc Etc.... You're asking the right question for sure but I also like to ask probing questions to get at the heart of what one is asking!

Looking forward to your response!

[InfiniteParadox]

Hello,

I'm pretty much set on GM now, so I think I can shortlist schools based on that. If there's a similar dual degree with GM, I'm open to that as well.

As for the Why MBA question, I think that doing an MBA will help me achieve my goals because of the self development, networking and knowledge I'd gain from it. Being part of a startup and holding positions in the social welfare sector has made me realize that efficiency can only be achieved by proper management of both people and resources, so an MBA will help me understand the finer nuances of management.

I think that people make or break an organization, so working with them in a better and more systematic way was something I'd like to do, that's why I had considered an HR MBA. I also think and have been told that I'm good with people so that was my second choice. However, now that I've thought about it, GM is definitely what I'd love to do.

I'm looking for a school that has excellent networking opportunities in addition to a program that emphasizes on more than just the curriculum, like clubs and activities. also, I'd love to go to a school with a large community and interact with people from different backgrounds. Hope that helps to cut down on the school list.

Thank you for all your help!

[money9111]

Ok let's begin this narrowing down process - will require more thought on your part thought but we will be able to cut down the list:

- Excellent networking opportunities- In terms of what? With your classmates? All of the b-schools you've listed offer that.
- Curriculum - no b-school emphasizes JUST the curriculum. If you find one that does...run... run far far away as that's not the value proposition of b-school.
- Community - okay knowing that you want a large community is a good starting point. Now, I ask you WHY do you want a large community vs. a small one? If it's to interact with people from different backgrounds then what you're really looking for is a DIVERSE student body and not necessarily a large one. A diverse student body MAY put different schools on that list than a LARGE student body. So which one is it? If you say you want a large student body then I'm going to ask "Why" for more insight into what's really important to you.
- What else can you tell me about the type of schools/cultures that you think will make you the most successful? Think about the environments (professional/personal) that you've been in throughout your life. What qualities did you like?

This may seem trivial in the grand scheme of things but trust me... it's not. Many applicants don't really think to themselves - "Okay where will I be the most successful AND be able to be myself and make an impact?" When that type of introspection is done, that's when applicants find a school that is the right FIT for him/her and it's easier to convey that in an essay.

Looking forward to your response!

[InfiniteParadox]

Alright, so I'll list down a couple of things I'm looking for point wise:

1. A focus on GM - From what I've heard, a couple of schools are more focused on finance, consulting or accounting by the way their curriculum is designed. If true, I'm looking for something that emphasizes on GM.

2. Community - I'm all for a large student body, because I find myself more involved and committed when I have to stand out in a large group. There's also this unexplainable feeling of being part of something big that drives me. It also gives me the opportunity to listen to and learn from a lot of different people, even if they don't differ completely.

3. Environment and location - I'd prefer a school nearby or in an urban setting, simply because I prefer the hustle and bustle of life more fascinating than say, a tranquil township.

4. Events and opportunities - Schools that have events other than those based on curriculum or guest speakers is something I'm also looking for so that attending them can be an all round stimulating educational experience.

5. Curriculum - A generalized or flexible first year curriculum is preferable.

Again, thank you for all your help! I just mean to get at least a rough idea from this discussion so I can research more in depth, and I apologize if I'm being too demanding.

[money9111]

1. Hhmm so schools have strengths but they'd like for people to not think of them in terms of applying. So yes, Chicago and Wharton are known to be "finance(y)" but that's because they place a lot of people in finance. The way to go about looking into a school is to look at the curriculum beyond the core curriculum. What types of classes does each school offer that are available? Then you can even take that further to see what the professors are like and even the teaching methodology. Is it all lecture based? Case-based? A combination of the 2? For general management I would assume you would be looking for a breadth of classes rather than depth in say finance. Operations would also be beneficial for general management.

Then aside from the curriculum, what impact do the extracurricular activities have on student's who want to go into GM? Your best bet here would be to reach out to students who are in the GM club at each school to get their advice. I always advise people to talk to a few students so that you get more than one viewpoint. If you do this don't just ask about how the club enhances one's GM experience but also what other types of activities occur on and off-campus at each school that would help someone accrue those GM skills? Do they participate in case competitions on campus? off campus? are there treks? etc etc... all of these things play into how well one would be prepared for GM.

2. Ok so if you want a large school then... Stanford, Tuck, Yale can definitely be removed from your list. As well as, Johnson (my school hehe), Darden, Georgetown and I think UCLA Anderson. All of those schools have class sizes under 300. I would actually double check Anderson as I'm not 100% positive.

3. If you want a school in an Urban setting then you can remove - Duke and MAYBE MIchigan (Ann Arbor is nice)

4. Events & Opportunities: I mentioned some of these things above, but all business schools have events & opportunities related too and not related to the curriculum. It's just a matter of which opportunities at each school excite you. You can get a lot of this type of information from the students that you talk to. Some of the information would be on the school website but trust me there are MANY more events & opportunities that students have access too that are not on the websites. Students get emails every day about these types of things.

5. Curriculum - this would be easy to find for each school. Additional to the 1st yr curriculum, you'll want to check to see what the 2nd yr curriculum is like for each school. Do you need prerequisites for certain classes? Can you take classes outside of the b-school from other programs at the University? How many can you take? Do any particularly interest you?

So with from the comments that I mentioned early on in this post your new list would be:

Harvard
Wharton
Columbia
INSEAD
Booth
Kellogg
NYU Stern
IESE
HEC Paris
Oxford/Said
SDA Bocconi

Now, here is where you need to do a lot of leg work to find out the admissions criteria for those w/o full-time work experience. Ask people at the school vs. people here on the message board. "Experts" here will tell you from their perspective of what they've seen work and in most cases those are the people who fall within the avg. range for all of the metrics. The schools listed above are incredibly competitive and would be even more so for someone without work experience unless the things that you've done are stellar.

I'm not too familiar with the schools outside of the US so you'll have to look at that on your own.

Based on your criteria this is the list that you would have come up with, however that doesn't mean that you should immediately rule out looking into the other schools. Sure, start with this list but you may find certain components of other schools that really resonate with your goals. Those are the schools that you should ultimately apply too.

Hope that helps!

[InfiniteParadox]

I will definitely look into advanced curriculum once I've shortened the list based on other factors, so I can bring it down even further. Getting in contact with students and alumni was always on my mind, but I couldn't do so for a huge list of schools, so that's why I wanted to narrow it down first.

The shortlist you suggested seems reasonable, however I'd like to consider UCLA Anderson for the location and student life and Darden because of how much I've heard of its GM program.

Similarly, Duke and Michigan also sound good from what I've researched, so I'd like to keep them as well for now. I've also gone through the criteria of some of the schools and quite a lot claim to value entrepreneurship and volunteer experience, so I'm pretty hopeful about them. I've decided to drop SDA Bocconi because it doesn't seem to have the concentrations I want and seems to favor students with more work experience, as with Kellogg, so my list again narrows down to this:

Harvard
Wharton
Columbia
INSEAD
Booth
NYU Stern
IESE
HEC Paris
Oxford/Said
Duke/Fuqua
UCLA Anderson
Michigan/Ross
Virginia/Darden

I will of course research more in depth on these schools on the criteria you mentioned, but was wondering if you have any suggestions on schools I should also be looking at that aren't on this list. Thank you for your help!