640 GMAT, Top 10 Aspirations

[darryl258]

I am deciding whether to take the GMATs once again. So far I have taken them 3 times:

2005: 15% Math, 44% Verbal
2007 November: 29% Math, 88% verbal = 560
August 2008: 55% Math, 87% Verbal = 640

My main question is will it look back to take the GMATs for a 4th time given the steady increase in math and the fact that my first exam was in 2005? What about a 5th time if necessary?

Overall, my undergrad profile is Electrical Engineering with GPA of 3.4, and Economics degree with 3.5, Strong work experience and demonstrated career progression - 4.5 years out of school. Currently posted internationally with responsibilities over middle eastern and european offices for a fortune 100 company. Volunteering background, and strong references from Alumni of top schools I am interested in.

I feel that aside from my GMATs I have a real chance at a top school. How many more tries would you say that I have on the GMAT before it starts looking bad...if any?? Also, if I were to take the GMAT's again and do worse then a 640, would this reflect badly on my application, or would admissions simply look at my best score?

Thank you!

[Scottie@VeritasPrep]

The admissions committee will consider your highest score however taking the GMAT more than 4 times is not looked upon positively. The rest of your profile looks great. If you do choose to take the GMAT again be sure to review your prep strategy carefully so that you can be certain it is the last time you take the test. Best of luck!

[VP_MBA_Guru]

D,
To add another perspective. I agree with the previous post, taking the GMAT more than 3 times is a red flag to AdCom. However, if you are shooting for a top 10 program, then you will likely need score in the 700+ range (I would argue mid-700s to offset any concerns over your previous scores). Do you think you will be able to make a significant improvement on your score? If you dont believe so, you may consider diverting your time toward getting you applications in by R1. You dont want to rush your applications, but applying in R1 might give you an 'slight' advantage in this already competitive admissions year.

Good luck,

NP

[darryl258]

NP,

Thank you for your perspective. I had not considered applying in earlier rounds. I believe I could increase my score to a 680, possibly a 700. Some of what you have said is in conflict with previous information I had heard. For one, I thought admissions committies would only count your highest score? Also, I understood that taking the gmat any more then 4 times would begin to look bad, not three. In my case, my first gmat was 2005, does this effect the 3-4 limit? I mention this because i took my last GMAT as a personal benchmark, to guage improvement in a real senerio, rather then as a final score.

Perhaps I will need to explain the circumstances surrounding my previous gmats in an extra essay if they may raise some concern?

Thank you!

[darryl258]

Also, I understood that earlier rounds could perhaps be more competitive then later rounds...is it actually the reverse?

Thanks again.

[VP_MBA_Guru]

I think most people would argue that R1 is the "least" competitive. And usually by R3, 90% of the class has already been accepted, so its very difficult to get in after R2.

NP

[VP_MBA_Guru]

NP,

Some of what you have said is in conflict with previous information I had heard. For one, I thought admissions committies would only count your highest score? Also, I understood that taking the gmat any more then 4 times would begin to look bad, not three.

Perhaps I will need to explain the circumstances surrounding my previous gmats in an extra essay if they may raise some concern?

Thank you!

Hi D,

Thanks for your message. I dont think there is a set standard, but in my opinion, any more than 3 (which means 4 GMAT scores) scores will send up a red flag to AdCom. Yes, they do take the highest score - but they also see how many times you have taken the test. Either way, I wouldnt get too hung up over the number of times you take the test. If you feel you can make a significant improvement on your test score, they you should go ahead.

And YES - you should explain why you took the GMAT multiple times. Most schools have an 'Optional Essay' which allows applicants to address any weaknesses / areas of concern in their application. Many applicants use this essay to discuss low GMAT/GPA scores, point out gaps in employment, explain why they dont have a LOR from a current employer.

Let us know if you have any other questions!

NP

[darryl258]

Thanks alot for the information.

I think I am pretty close to making a decision. The final question I have is:

If I were to take the GMATs again, and do worse then my previous highest score (640) would this reflect badly on my applicaiton package? Or again, is it simply the highest score and the number of times I have taken the gmats, not the order of improvement, etc.

Thank you!

[jsl]

I think most people would argue that R1 is the "least" competitive. And usually by R3, 90% of the class has already been accepted, so its very difficult to get in after R2.

NP

Hi NP - thanks for your advice... I have been studying with Kaplan and they suggest skipping round 1 and applying in round 2. Kaplan advise on this because they believe that Adcoms wait to get a feel of the quality of applicants for the year in question.

Please can you elaborate on why you believe round 1 is better than round 2? I'm interested to hear your perspective on this.

Many thanks,
Jon

[VP_MBA_Guru]

Hmm, that is an interesting perspective. I respectfully (well, not really!) disagree!

Here is my take (note - this is ONLY my opinion, and not necessarily that of Veritas Prep) - I believe that many candidates underestimate the amount of time needed to submit a strong application. Amongst other things - school essay questions are not released until summer, leaving the applicant with only a few weeks to finish their applications by R1. Other reasons include - need to retake the GMAT, need time to get LORs, summer vacation schedules.

I have seen many candidates unable to finish a strong application by the R1 deadline and then postpone applying to R2. This is not an 'option' for R2. If you miss the R2 deadline (and need to apply in R3), you are at HUGE significant disadvantage - as there are only a few seats (5-10%) remaining after R2. There is less of this urgency for R1 applicants.

Also, the number of applications shoot up dramatically in R2, so the applicant pool is much more competitive. I would also argue that - yes, while AdCom is still trying to figure out the relative 'quality' of the applicants, they are slightly more accepting, since they don't really know what R2 will bring in.

** Regardless though, as I mentioned before, I think there is only a SLIGHT advantage of applying in R1.

MOST IMPORTANTLY, however - make sure you apply when you are most comfortable with your application; be it R1 or R2.

Good luck!

NP

[VP_MBA_Guru]

Hi D,

Yes - AdCom will take your highest score.

** I just wanted to clarify that I hope we are not sending mixed messages. Yes, AdCom will take your highest score. But they also 'indirectly' look at the number of times you have taken the test. Anything more than three or four times and its a red flag - just like any other area of concern on your application.

[darryl258]

Hi,

Thank you for your thoughts. I think I am getting close to forming an approach.

I would also think it would potentially be a red flag if I took gmats again (a 4th time) and did worse, or only did marginally better. To be honest I don't think the strenght of my application will be standardized tests, but rather my work experience, etc. Perhaps instead of trying to raise my score another 40-50 points, a better use of my time would be to begin preparing my applications as you origionally mentioned.

Does a 640 GMAT put me in the "look at" pile for top 10 schools?? So that the rest of my application will be fully considered?

Thank you!

Darryl

[VP_MBA_Guru]

D-
Everyone's application is considered. AdCom will go through your entire application and make decisions accordingly. While 640 is on the lower end of most top 10 school averages, they will consider your score along with other aspects of your candidacy, including GPA, WE, LORs, Essays.

Regards,