CONFUSED .. How to proceed further

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CONFUSED .. How to proceed further

by bubbliiiiiiii » Thu May 12, 2011 9:40 pm
Hi,

I am facing real trouble with verbal section, especially sentence correction.

I am yet to try out the RC section. I have attempted GMAT preps my score ranges over 5 attempts as follows,

Verbal - 25 to 37
Quant - 45 to 49
Overall - 590 to 710. (710, 590, 610, 640, 600)

I target to achieve a 50 in Quant and atleast 40 in Verbal so that my overall score would be around 720+.

Can some one please provide guidance on how to acheive my target?\

Material referenced so far - OG12, GMAT supplements (both V and Q), Manhattan SC guide.
Regards,

Pranay

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by itheenigma » Fri May 13, 2011 12:21 am
A 50 in quant and a 40 in verbal will take you to around 740, as per what I have seen.
I'm not sure whether you are facing issues with the timing or with the difficulty level.
Are you able to attempt all questions? GMAT severely punishes incomplete tests.

Having said this, I'm seeing positive results in my preparation by maintaining and reviewing an error log.
You can find one to your liking here --> https://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/gmat-error-log

Hope this helps...

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by bubbliiiiiiii » Fri May 13, 2011 1:01 am
Hi itheenigma,

I am able to complete all the verbal questions in time though I miss last 4-5 question in Quant section.
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by lunarpower » Fri May 13, 2011 2:00 am
bubbliiiiiiii wrote:I have attempted GMAT preps my score ranges over 5 attempts as follows,

Verbal - 25 to 37
Quant - 45 to 49
Overall - 590 to 710. (710, 590, 610, 640, 600)
wait, 5 gmat preps?
gmat prep only contains 2 distinct exams, so 3 of these must be repeated scores. which two are the non-repeated scores?

remember that scores from repeated tests are meaningless -- the presence of even 4-5 problems that you've previously seen can artificially raise your score by as much as 50-70 points.
this is not to say that repeated tests are useless; after all, they can be quite useful in terms of continuing to practice overall rhythm, timing, etc. but you should realize that the scores you receive on repeated tests are not an indicator of anything.
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

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by bubbliiiiiiii » Fri May 13, 2011 2:09 am
Thanks Ron for the response.

First GMAT Prep Attempt - 710 (Q49, V37)
Second GMAT Prep Attempt - 590 (Q45, V28) :(

All others are repeated attempts of the tests.

Moreover, what are the other sources to practice?
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by lunarpower » Fri May 13, 2011 2:20 am
your first score was that much higher than all the other ones? wow.

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in any case ...
i can't really give a meaningful response to this post right now, because the post doesn't really contain any information -- it just contains a bunch of numerical scores, and then asks "how do i get score X?"
the very presence of such a question reflects a fundamental misunderstanding of the test; this is not a test of memorization or knowledge, and there is not a set batch of information that you can just memorize in order to get score X. in fact, the whole test, especially the verbal section, is specifically set up so that (a) concrete knowledge is as unimportant as possible and (b) memorization is essentially useless.

so, in order to have any sort of response to this question that will mean anything, the following information is necessary:

* how have you been studying?

* how have you reviewed the problems in the OG and supplements? how have you reviewed them when you've gotten them wrong? how have you reviewed them when you've gotten them correct?

* have you been prioritizing the information you've learned so that a small number of items are "high priority" and everything else is ancillary (good), or have you just been trying to memorize literally every single rule you encounter, as if all of them have the same degree of importance (bad)?

etc.

also, re: "other sources" -- most non-official verbal sources are pretty low-quality, and (particularly in SC) are downright *wrong* at times. therefore, you should try to stick with official materials as much as possible.
if you are reviewing the official verbal materials (og12, og verbal supplement, gmat prep archives) with the proper degree of thoroughness, then those sources alone should be good enough for at least a few months.
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by bubbliiiiiiii » Fri May 13, 2011 2:50 am
your first score was that much higher than all the other ones? wow.
That even amazes me as well!

* how have you been studying?
Let me begin with my background. I am an Indian Software working professional working at an MNC for 3.5 years now. I have 9-6 working hours, with around 2 additional hours spent in travelling.

My schedule is to study for two hours during week days and to attempt a GMAT Prep during weekend.

My study material include - OG12, GMAC Supplements, BTG Forum and Manhattan SC guide (old one).
Currently going through the advanced concepts in Manhattan SC guide, 4th edition. (Just started today).
* how have you reviewed the problems in the OG and supplements? how have you reviewed them when you've gotten them wrong? how have you reviewed them when you've gotten them correct?
I pratice reviewing every option of each question, irrespective of it being right or wrong so that I get more strategies to eliminate the wrong answers and pick the right one.

Moreover, I maintain a log of wrong questions and try to attempt them after a week from when I first practiced them.
have you been prioritizing the information you've learned so that a small number of items are "high priority" and everything else is ancillary (good), or have you just been trying to memorize literally every single rule you encounter, as if all of them have the same degree of importance (bad)?
Here, I would say mix and match of both. For idioms, I try to memorize them whereas for topics such as subject verb agreement, modifiers, pronoun references, comparisons I try to understand them and try to implement them during practice sessions.


Druing my entire study plan I have always tried to stay from non-official sources.

I am really stuck, as I am not able to recognize the flaw in my study pattern or thought process while answering questions. Sometimes, I feel may be I am trying too much and need a break for a couple of days! Don't know what to do. Please suggest.
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by lunarpower » Thu May 19, 2011 3:27 pm
bubbliiiiiiii wrote:My schedule is to study for two hours during week days and to attempt a GMAT Prep during weekend.
how many days do you take *off*?

you MUST take at least one day per week -- preferably two, but at least one -- *off* studying.

this is a test of "lateral thinking" -- i.e., the kind of thinking that connects different concepts and tests the relationships between concepts, rather than testing things in a linear fashion.
the only time that the brain makes the requisite connections between concepts is when you take time off; if you try to study seven days per week, then you won't be able to think of things in a way that isn't perfectly logical and linear. that will spell bad news, especially on the verbal section (on which many of the problems are of types that are specifically designed *not* to be perfectly logical and linear).

My study material include - OG12, GMAC Supplements, BTG Forum and Manhattan SC guide (old one).
Currently going through the advanced concepts in Manhattan SC guide, 4th edition. (Just started today).
whatever you do, make sure that you don't try to learn *everything* with the same priority. (this is the default "software mentality" -- when you work with software, you have to treat every possible problem/bug as having the same importance, because basically *any* bug will mean that a program doesn't work.) there's waaaaayyyy too much information to keep in your conscious mind at once, so you have to choose certain topics to elevate over the others in terms of importance.

in other words, you should concentrate on PRIORITIZING the different SC topics.

the BIG MISTAKE, on SC, is to try to look for EVERYTHING that you have ever seen in the problems/exercises, all at once.
this doesn't work -- it's a lot like trying to find all of the words in a word-search puzzle at once. if you've tried that, you'll know that it leads more often than not to finding nothing.

instead, you need to have a short "priority list" of SC error types that you'll look for FIRST, and you need to relegate all other error types to lower "tiers" of this sort of hierarchical thinking.

in particular:

WHEN YOU READ THE PROMPT:
- look for the MEANING OF THE SENTENCE
- look for PARALLELISM

* FIRST * LOOK FOR THE FOLLOWING ERRORS in the answer choices:
- PRONOUNS
- MODIFIER PLACEMENT
- SUBJECT-VERB AGREEMENT

* THEN look for everything else.


think of the first-tier topics in the way you'd think about "triage" data (pulse, blood pressure, temperature) for an emergency patient at a hospital -- you ALWAYS collect the triage data first, and THEN think about everything else.
you should think about SC the same way -- if there are errors in the "triage" topics (parallelism, pronouns, modifier placement, SV agreement), then you should be finding those errors 100% of the time. if you are not finding these errors 100% of the time, then you should not move on to considering other error types until you can.

this is a "less is more" type of approach, but you should find that it throws the problems into much better focus.

I pratice reviewing every option of each question, irrespective of it being right or wrong so that I get more strategies to eliminate the wrong answers and pick the right one.

Moreover, I maintain a log of wrong questions and try to attempt them after a week from when I first practiced them.
you may want to wait longer than a week -- if you only wait a week, you'll probably still have a decently vivid memory of the problem and of the techniques that solve it.

Here, I would say mix and match of both. For idioms, I try to memorize them whereas for topics such as subject verb agreement, modifiers, pronoun references, comparisons I try to understand them and try to implement them during practice sessions.
this sounds good -- just make sure that you don't try to absorb all of the information with the same priority and/or try to look for all of it at once. you have to prioritize, as mentioned above.

Druing my entire study plan I have always tried to stay from non-official sources.

I am really stuck, as I am not able to recognize the flaw in my study pattern or thought process while answering questions. Sometimes, I feel may be I am trying too much and need a break for a couple of days! Don't know what to do. Please suggest.
wait, does this mean that you haven't EVER "taken a break for a couple of days"?

if so, then you need to put down the books for at least 1-2 weeks and do *nothing* for that time -- you need to give your brain the opportunity to build the necessary circuits for lateral thinking. if you study 7 days per week, you will learn less than if you study 5 days per week.
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

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by bubbliiiiiiii » Thu May 19, 2011 8:59 pm
Thanks a ton sir for your guidance.

Since I wrote the post, I have reduced my speed and eventually reallized that I was pressing too much on GMAT. You are right in your guessing that I haven't taken any break since I began preparation.

Now, I am planning to prepare in a more controlled manner and hopefully the results turn out to be effective.

Will keep posted on my updates as and when I see any difference.

Thanks sir again, for taking off time to address this issue.
Regards,

Pranay

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by what? » Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:44 am
GREAT thread !!!

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by mundasingh123 » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:53 am
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I Seek Explanations Not Answers

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by 786 » Sat Sep 10, 2011 3:03 am
Superrr Advice !
Thanks to Ron .

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by bubbliiiiiiii » Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:24 pm
Hi Ron,

Just wanted to update you the results I obtained by following your guidance.

I attempted a few more GMAT Preps and have maintained a score in the range of 660 - 690. However, I think I to press myself more in order to achieve a 720+.

For this I got a suggestion from one of the BTG expert to focus more on meaning perspective and then apply grammar rules to a sentence correction (are which I mostly commit mistakes) and I am practicing it.

Could you please once again show me path on how to achieve my target score?
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by lunarpower » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:59 pm
bubbliiiiiiii wrote:Hi Ron,

Just wanted to update you the results I obtained by following your guidance.

I attempted a few more GMAT Preps and have maintained a score in the range of 660 - 690. However, I think I to press myself more in order to achieve a 720+.

For this I got a suggestion from one of the BTG expert to focus more on meaning perspective and then apply grammar rules to a sentence correction (are which I mostly commit mistakes) and I am practicing it.
this is the right idea. however, from the way in which you wrote this, it seems you may be thinking of "grammar" and "meaning" as if they were separate.
they're not. in fact, without an intended meaning, "correct grammar" does not even exist.

thought experiment: how would you define what grammar actually is?
if you think about it for a while, you will probably settle on some definition like "a system of rules for conveying an intended meaning more accurately".
this is the point -- there is no such thing as "correct grammar" in and of itself. a pronoun or modifier reference, for instance, CANNOT be "correct" unless (a) the intended meaning of the sentence is clear and (b) the reference agrees with that meaning. the same is largely true for other grammatical errors as well.

i think you may have seen this post already, but check it out:
https://www.beatthegmat.com/companies-in ... tml#367679
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

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by bubbliiiiiiii » Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:21 pm
Thanks Ron for the post. Though I have read this idea earlier, I think I am understanding its true meaning only now because I am trying to drive that approach. :)

My current action plan is to revisit the OG12 SC section and try to solve the questions from meaning perspective. I also found a good post by Stacey on MGMAT, analyzing OG12 questions from meaning perspective. I hope this approach would help me understand things.

Also, I was worried about my score from one of my MGMAT tests. Firstly, I found the MGMAT tests to be very tiring for me (may be because the level of complexity of questions is slightly higher in MGMAT than it is in GMAT PREP) and I ended up guessing the last 5-6 question in verbal section. My score from my MGMAT Prep was 640 (while 680, on average, in GMAT Prep). Is this fine or am I going down in my understanding? If you would like to analyze things before suggesting me, I can export the results of my exam in an excel sheet and send it to you.

Please let me know and please suggest.

Your suggestions do matter for me.
Regards,

Pranay