## Sun and Moon: Difficult one

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### Sun and Moon: Difficult one

by vk_vinayak » Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:42 am
Because of the Sun, which is 400 times larger than the Moon, but also 400 times farther away from Earth, so both the Sun and the Moon have the same apparent size in the sky.

A: Because of the Sun, which is 400 times larger than the Moon, but also 400 times farther away from Earth, so both the Sun and the Moon have the same apparent size in the sky.

B. The Sun, which is 400 times larger than the Moon, is also 400 times farther away from Earth, so the Sun and the Moon have the same apparent size in the sky.

C. The Sun and the Moon have the same apparent size in the sky because the Sun, which is 400 times larger than the Moon, and also 400 times farther away from Earth.

D. Four hundred times larger than the Moon and 400 times farther away from Earth, the Sun has the same apparent size in the sky as the Moon's.

E. Four hundred times larger than the Moon and also 400 times farther away from Earth, so the Sun in the sky has the same apparent size as the Moon.

Please explain your reasoning for each options.
[spoiler]OA: B[/spoiler]
Last edited by vk_vinayak on Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by santusri2001 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:06 am
Choice B simplifies the sentence

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by manihar.sidharth » Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:45 am
IMO D
" Four hundred times larger than the Moon and 400 times farther away from Earth" modifies SUN And correctly compares the size of the sun with that of Moon's.

Please post the OA

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by GMATGuruNY » Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:07 pm
vk_vinayak wrote:Because of the Sun, which is 400 times larger than the Moon, but also 400 times farther away from Earth, so both the Sun and the Moon have the same apparent size in the sky.

A: Because of the Sun, which is 400 times larger than the Moon, but also 400 times farther away from Earth, so both the Sun and the Moon have the same apparent size in the sky.

B. The Sun, which is 400 times larger than the Moon, is also 400 times farther away from Earth, so the Sun and the Moon have the same apparent size in the sky.

C. The Sun and the Moon have the same apparent size in the sky because the Sun, which is 400 times larger than the Moon, and also 400 times farther away from Earth.

D. Four hundred times larger than the Moon and 400 times farther away from Earth, the Sun has the same apparent size in the sky as the Moon's.

E. Four hundred times larger than the Moon and also 400 times farther away from Earth, so the Sun in the sky has the same apparent size as the Moon.

Please explain your reasoning for each options. OA later.
In A and E, so is not preceded by an independent clause. When so serves as a coordinating conjunction -- as it does here -- it must connect two independent clauses, each with its own subject and verb. Eliminate A and E.

In C, the subject that follows because -- THE SUN -- lacks a verb. Because the sun DOES WHAT EXACTLY? Eliminate C.

In D, the Moon's seems to be standing in for the Moon's SIZE, implying the following comparison:
The Sun has the same apparent size as THE MOON'S SIZE HAS.
We can't say that THE MOON'S SIZE has a SIZE. Eliminate D.

The correct answer is B.
Last edited by GMATGuruNY on Thu May 23, 2013 3:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by ice_rush » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:50 am
Hi Mitch,

You mentioned in your explanation that ...when so serves as a coordinating conjunction -- as it does here -- it must connect two independent clauses, each with its own subject and verb. Eliminate A and E.

Does this mean that so is not serving as a coordinating conjunction in choice (B)?

Would (D) be correct if the comparison ended with only Moon or Moon does (.... the Sun has the same apparent size in the sky as the Moon or should it be Moon does?

Thanks!

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by GMATGuruNY » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:08 am
ice_rush wrote:Hi Mitch,

You mentioned in your explanation that ...when so serves as a coordinating conjunction -- as it does here -- it must connect two independent clauses, each with its own subject and verb. Eliminate A and E.

Does this mean that so is not serving as a coordinating conjunction in choice (B)?
In B, so serves as a coordinating conjunction connecting two independent clauses, each with its own subject and verb:
Clause 1: THE SUN...IS also 400 times farther away from Earth.
Clause 2: THE SUN AND THE MOON HAVE the same apparent size in the sky.
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by ice_rush » Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:03 pm
Hi Mitch,

got it! Appreciate your quick reply. Can you comment on the choice (D) changes I suggested?

Thanks!

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by ihatemaths » Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:33 am
Eliminate A - reason wrong usage of but also
Eliminate E - after the comma no subject

fight is between B , C and D while all the three have shortcomings , I say shortcomings because it's not one we could solve only by GMAT rules a bit of reasoning is needed .

Eliminate D - usage of moon's is ambiguos or not GMAT ish

We are left with C and B
Eliminate C - wrong usage of cause and effect saying "Apparent size caused the Sun to be 400 times X and 400 times Y " absolutely wrong
We are left with B as GMATGuruNY said not so elegant but got to go with it.

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by ankit0703 » Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:17 pm
GMATGuruNY wrote:
ice_rush wrote:Hi Mitch,

You mentioned in your explanation that ...when so serves as a coordinating conjunction -- as it does here -- it must connect two independent clauses, each with its own subject and verb. Eliminate A and E.

Does this mean that so is not serving as a coordinating conjunction in choice (B)?
In B, so serves as a coordinating conjunction connecting two independent clauses, each with its own subject and verb:
Clause 1: THE SUN...IS also 400 times farther away from Earth.
Clause 2: THE SUN AND THE MOON HAVE the same apparent size in the sky.
Could you please explain how the usage of "is also" in option B is correct?
The Sun, which is 400 times larger than the Moon, is also 400 times farther away from Earth, so the Sun and the Moon have the same apparent size in the sky.

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by GMATGuruNY » Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:59 am
ankit0703 wrote: Could you please explain how the usage of "is also" in option B is correct?
The Sun, which is 400 times larger than the Moon, is also 400 times farther away from Earth, so the Sun and the Moon have the same apparent size in the sky.

The Sun, which is 400 times larger than the Moon, is also 400 times farther away from Earth, so the Sun and the Moon have the same apparent size in the sky.

Here, is also serves a semantic purpose.
It implies that one aspect of the sun -- that it is 400 times larger than the Moon -- does not tell the WHOLE STORY.
The sun IS ALSO 400 times farther away from Earth.
The RESULT is that the Sun and the Moon have the same apparent size in the sky.

Another example:
Mr. Johnson, my math teacher for the past two years, IS ALSO my soccer coach.
Here, one aspect of Mr. Johnson -- that he has been my math teacher for the past two years -- does not tell the whole story.
Mr. Johnson IS ALSO my soccer coach.
Last edited by GMATGuruNY on Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by ankit0703 » Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:19 am
GMATGuruNY wrote:
ankit0703 wrote: Could you please explain how the usage of "is also" in option B is correct?
The Sun, which is 400 times larger than the Moon, is also 400 times farther away from Earth, so the Sun and the Moon have the same apparent size in the sky.

The Sun, which is 400 times larger than the Moon, is also 400 times farther away from Earth, so the Sun and the Moon have the same apparent size in the sky.

Here, is also serves a semantic purpose.
It implies that one aspect of the sun -- that it is 400 times larger than the Moon -- does not tell the WHOLE STORY.
The sun IS ALSO 400 times farther away from Earth.
The RESULT is that the Sun and the Moon have the same apparent size on the sky.

Another example:
Mr. Johnson, my math teacher for the past two years, IS ALSO my soccer coach.
Here, one aspect of Mr. Johnson -- that he has been my math teacher for the past two years -- does not tell the whole story.
Mr. Johnson IS ALSO my soccer coach.
But in the above example:
Mr. Johnson, my math teacher for the past two years, IS ALSO my soccer coach.

"my math teacher for the past two years" is a non-essential clause. Shouldn't it be the essential clause?

Mr. Johnson who is my math teacher for the past two years IS ALSO my soccer coach.

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by tanviet » Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:13 pm
I like this question very much.
in SC, we alway face at least 2 answer choices which are correct both logically and grammarticaly such as B and D in this case.

one answer choices is considered wrong because it is not considered the intended meaning. we have to use common sense to realize this incorrectness.

D is not wrong at all. But the intended meaning here is clearly B.
if D stand alone, it is correct and logic but if it stand beside B, the intended meaning is B not D and D is considered distortd meaning.

the matter I said is core thinking of gmat.

I wish gmat experts to discuss more of this point. Thank you

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by coolmrityu » Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:46 am
Hi,
Pls. tell why the mentioned sentence is wrong.
"Four hundred times larger than the Moon and 400 times farther away from Earth, the Sun has the same apparent size in the sky as the Moon's."

Woun't it (moon's) refer to the moon size which is compared with the sun size?

And i dont think there is some meaning issue here.

Pls. cooperate and resolve my confusion.

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by vietmoi999 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:16 pm
GMATGuruNY wrote:
vk_vinayak wrote:Because of the Sun, which is 400 times larger than the Moon, but also 400 times farther away from Earth, so both the Sun and the Moon have the same apparent size in the sky.

A: Because of the Sun, which is 400 times larger than the Moon, but also 400 times farther away from Earth, so both the Sun and the Moon have the same apparent size in the sky.

B. The Sun, which is 400 times larger than the Moon, is also 400 times farther away from Earth, so the Sun and the Moon have the same apparent size in the sky.

C. The Sun and the Moon have the same apparent size in the sky because the Sun, which is 400 times larger than the Moon, and also 400 times farther away from Earth.

D. Four hundred times larger than the Moon and 400 times farther away from Earth, the Sun has the same apparent size in the sky as the Moon's.

E. Four hundred times larger than the Moon and also 400 times farther away from Earth, so the Sun in the sky has the same apparent size as the Moon.

Please explain your reasoning for each options. OA later.
In A and E, so is not preceded by an independent clause. When so serves as a coordinating conjunction -- as it does here -- it must connect two independent clauses, each with its own subject and verb. Eliminate A and E.

In C, the subject that follows because -- THE SUN -- lacks a verb. Because the sun DOES WHAT EXACTLY? Eliminate C.

In D, the Moon's seems to be standing in for the Moon's SIZE, implying the following comparison:
The Sun has the same apparent size as THE MOON'S SIZE HAS.
We can't say that THE MOON'S SIZE has a SIZE. Eliminate D.

The correct answer is B.
I have the same pen as your pen

is correct pattern. after "the same as" we can use a noun or a clause.

so, D is not incorrect in this point.

pls, explain , why D is wrong

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by GMATGuruNY » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:21 am
vietmoi999 wrote:I have the same pen as your pen

is correct pattern. after "the same as" we can use a noun or a clause.

so, D is not incorrect in this point.

pls, explain , why D is wrong
Generally, as serves to compare two VERBS.
Sometimes the second verb is omitted, but its presence is still implied.

In your post above, the sentence in red is incorrect.
It conveys the following meaning:
I have the same pen as your pen [has].
The verb in brackets is omitted, but its presence is implied.
The resulting meaning is nonsensical, implying that YOUR PEN HAS the same pen as I HAVE.

Correct: I have the same type of pen as YOU.
Conveyed meaning: I have the same type of pen as you [have].

Another case:

Correct: John attends the same school as Mary.
Conveyed meaning: John attends the same school as Mary [attends].
The verb in brackets is omitted, but its presence is implied.

Incorrect: John attends the same school as Mary's.
Conveyed meaning: John attends the same school as Mary's [school attends].
The words in brackets are omitted, but their presence is implied.
The resulting meaning is nonsensical, implying that MARY'S SCHOOL ATTENDS the same school as JOHN ATTENDS.

Answer choice D in the SC above:
The Sun has the same apparent size in the sky as the Moon's.
Conveyed meaning:
The Sun has the same apparent size in the sky as the Moon's [size has].
The words in brackets are omitted, but their presence is implied.
The resulting meaning is nonsensical, implying that THE MOON'S SIZE HAS the same apparent size as THE SUN HAS.
Last edited by GMATGuruNY on Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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