Stone Age

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Stone Age

by apple100 » Sun May 10, 2009 3:37 pm
The new image of Stone Age people as systematic hunters of large animals, rather than merely scavenging for meat, have emerged from the examination of tools found in Germany including , three wooden spears that archaeologists believe to be about 400,000 years old.



(A) merely scavenging for meat, have emerged from the examination of tools found in Germany, including
(B) as merely scavenging for meat, have emerged from examining tools found in Germany, which include
(C) as mere meat scavengers, has emerged from examining tools found in Germany that includes
(D) mere scavengers of meat, has emerged from the examination of tools found in Germany, which includes
(E) mere scavengers of meat, has emerged from the examination of tools found in Germany, including

[spoiler]OA is E, but what is wrong with C. If C were "that include" instead of "that includes" would it be correct? Also does "that" modify Germany?[/spoiler]

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by cramya » Sun May 10, 2009 4:16 pm
We need has(sing verb) and not have so elimninate A,B

Couple of reasons to elimnate C,D

C-> uses "that" which as worded refers to Gemany the nearest noun

X RATHER THAN Y is the idiom

X->systematic hunters of large animals
Y->mere scavengers of meat

We dont need "as" again since it violates the idiomatic usage

D-> which refers to germany the nearest noun and changes the meaning

Hence E

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by PAB2706 » Sun May 10, 2009 8:12 pm
In addition to the above post....

In E Scavengers of meat is parallel to hunters of large animal.

We can eliminate D bcos of includes.

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by lunarpower » Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:08 am
parallel structure is one reason why (c) is worse than (d) or (e).

to wit, look at the blue parts below. note that "rather than" is a one-part signal - i.e., unlike two-part constructions such as "both ... and" and "not only ... but also", it lacks a left-hand part indicating the beginning of the first parallel element. therefore, you can choose to start the first parallel element wherever you want - meaning that you can choose to include or exclude "as" at your convenience:

(c)
The new image of Stone Age people as systematic hunters of large animals, rather than as mere meat scavengers, has...
this parallelism is acceptable, but there are two undesirable things:
* "hunters OF large animals" isn't truly parallel to "meat scavengers"
* "meat scavengers" is awkward / unclear (you probably won't know this unless you're a native speaker of english and/or a writer)

(d)(e)
The new image of Stone Age people as systematic hunters of large animals, rather than mere scavengers of meat, has...
this is better parallelism (notice that "as" is excluded from the first part this time).
* note the EXACT parallelism between "hunters OF large animals" and "scavengers OF meat".

also, (c) implies, unambiguously (and absurdly), that germany itself "includes" 3 wooden spears.
(3 all the way!)
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by lunarpower » Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:10 am
also

by far the easiest way to kill (c) is subject-verb agreement: "includes" (singular) doesn't make sense, because "tools" (the clearly intended antecedent) is plural.

there is also a VERY subtle difference in meaning here, which is wholly idiomatic.
namely:
if you say "tools that include X", then X is A COMPONENT of the tools. so, for instance, "tools that include a bottle opener" means that a bottle opener is one of many attachments.
on the other hand, "tools(,) including X" implies that X is ONE OF the tools. so, for instance, "tools(,) including a bottle opener" means that the bottle opener itself is one of the tools in question.

clearly, S-V agreement is the easier way to go.
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by apple100 » Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:18 am
lunarpower wrote:parallel structure is one reason why (c) is worse than (d) or (e).

to wit, look at the blue parts below. note that "rather than" is a one-part signal - i.e., unlike two-part constructions such as "both ... and" and "not only ... but also", it lacks a left-hand part indicating the beginning of the first parallel element. therefore, you can choose to start the first parallel element wherever you want - meaning that you can choose to include or exclude "as" at your convenience:

(c)
The new image of Stone Age people as systematic hunters of large animals, rather than as mere meat scavengers, has...
this parallelism is acceptable, but there are two undesirable things:
* "hunters OF large animals" isn't truly parallel to "meat scavengers"
* "meat scavengers" is awkward / unclear (you probably won't know this unless you're a native speaker of english and/or a writer)

(d)(e)
The new image of Stone Age people as systematic hunters of large animals, rather than mere scavengers of meat, has...
this is better parallelism (notice that "as" is excluded from the first part this time).
* note the EXACT parallelism between "hunters OF large animals" and "scavengers OF meat".

also, (c) implies, unambiguously (and absurdly), that germany itself "includes" 3 wooden spears.
(3 all the way!)
thanks!

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by priyank12 » Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:38 am
if we were given only 2 option to choose from...which one of the following will u choose

1) mere scavengers of meat, has emerged from the examination of tools that include

2) mere scavengers of meat, has emerged from the examination of tools, which include

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by yogami » Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:55 am
yeah but somewhere I read that when you use which instead of that then it is fine cos that is restrictive and which is not. Thats the reason I chose D.
Can someone shed some more light between D and E please?
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by rahulg83 » Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:24 am
D is all-in-all wrong, 'which' here modifies Germany which is absurd. Certainly E is better..

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by lunarpower » Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:00 am
priyank12 wrote:if we were given only 2 option to choose from...which one of the following will u choose

1) mere scavengers of meat, has emerged from the examination of tools that include

2) mere scavengers of meat, has emerged from the examination of tools, which include
both are wrong in this context (not grammatically), as both would imply that spears were components of the tools.

i'm not enamored of recommending an incorrect option over another incorrect option, and it's unwise practice for anyone else to do so (so i hope no one else attempts to answer this dilemma).

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in a different context, this boils down to the difference between "essential modifiers" and "nonessential modifiers". that's a difference that is entirely contextual, not grammatical: i.e., it depends entirely on the meaning of what you're saying.

this is a topic that is covered at length on numerous websites. if you want to know more, google the aforementioned terms for more (and more detailed) information than could possibly be posted here.
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by thetrystero » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:47 am
The new image of Stone Age people as systematic hunters of large animals, rather than merely scavenging for meat, have emerged from the examination of tools found in Germany, including three wooden spears that archaeologists believe to be about 400,000 years old.



(A) merely scavenging for meat, have emerged from the examination of tools found in Germany, including
(B) as merely scavenging for meat, have emerged from examining tools found in Germany, which include
(C) as mere meat scavengers, has emerged from examining tools found in Germany that includes
(D) mere scavengers of meat, has emerged from the examination of tools found in Germany, which includes
(E) mere scavengers of meat, has emerged from the examination of tools found in Germany, including

My answer: E
"systematic hunters of large animals" rather than ____

where the blank should follow the previous verb phrase. "mere scavengers of meat" fits this best.

comma preceding "which includes" makes it awkward.

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by pnk » Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:01 am
apple100 wrote:The new image of Stone Age people as systematic hunters of large animals, rather than merely scavenging for meat, have emerged from the examination of tools found in Germany including , three wooden spears that archaeologists believe to be about 400,000 years old.



(A) merely scavenging for meat, have emerged from the examination of tools found in Germany, including
(B) as merely scavenging for meat, have emerged from examining tools found in Germany, which include
(C) as mere meat scavengers, has emerged from examining tools found in Germany that includes
(D) mere scavengers of meat, has emerged from the examination of tools found in Germany, which includes
(E) mere scavengers of meat, has emerged from the examination of tools found in Germany, including

[spoiler]OA is E, but what is wrong with C. If C were "that include" instead of "that includes" would it be correct? Also does "that" modify Germany?[/spoiler]
Hi Ron,

I have a number of your post, wherein you have mentioned that 'comma+verbing' modifies the subject of the clause. If that is correct will it be appropriate to say 'including' modifies tools. While attempting this question I eliminated E just on that logic.

Pls help

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by paes » Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:55 am
good doubt .

Ron,

can you please clarify the doubt above.

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by lunarpower » Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:52 am
pnk wrote:I have a number of your post, wherein you have mentioned that 'comma+verbing' modifies the subject of the clause. If that is correct will it be appropriate to say 'including' modifies tools. While attempting this question I eliminated E just on that logic.

Pls help[/b]
ah, yes.

important:
"INCLUDING" is an EXCEPTION to the otherwise robust rules for comma+ing modifiers.


when you see "comma + including", you should NOT think of "including" as "__ing".
you should think of it as a random word that's not an "__ing" word; it just happens to be dressed that way. it qualifies the previous NOUN (or NOUN+modifiers), by giving a PARTIAL list (not a complete list!) of examples.

thanks for pointing this out / calling it to our attention -- we'll be sure to include it in our revised unit on modifiers in the course.
Last edited by lunarpower on Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by e-GMAT » Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:57 am
Great catch!!! :)

In fact Question#120 in OG12 also displays this usage. In non-underlined portion of the sentence, including is used with comma and it modifies the preceding noun - personality traits.

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