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GMATPrep - usage of WITH

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GMATPrep - usage of WITH

by GMATMadeEasy » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:15 pm
Shrinking faster than any other nation's, the projected decline of Japan's population is 17 percent during the next half century.

(A) Shrinking faster than any other nation's, the projected decline of Japan's population is
(B) Shrinking faster than any other nation, Japan's population has a projected decline of
(C) The population of Japan is shrinking faster than that of any other nation and is projected to decline by
(D) The Japanese population is shrinking faster than any other nation, and it has a projected decline at
(E) Japan's population is shrinking faster than that of any other nation, with a projected decline at

OA is C

Why E is wrong ?
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by Ashley@VeritasPrep » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:40 pm
The wording in E is just a little off. The only part that sounds really wrong to me is the "at"... I would say "a decline of..."

Not a very satisfying explanation, but I think that's all it comes down to!
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by GMATMadeEasy » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:51 pm
Thanks Ashley.

Could you please suggest whether usage of with is correct here? It has always troubled me.
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by Ashley@VeritasPrep » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:15 pm
Hmm, the "with" doesn't really bother me (though others may disagree?). It seems to me that the "with" just suggests a general idea of "having" or "being described by" (Japan's population has a projected decline, in a sense). Similarly, I might say something like "With nearly 20,000 people in attendance, the event had an amazing turnout" or "With only hope motivating her, she decided to carry out a search for the lost boy." It seems legitimate to me.
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by e-GMAT » Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:51 pm
I agree with Ashley regarding the usage of "with" in choice E.

Adding my 2 cents here:

Japan's population is shrinking faster than that of any other nation, with a projected decline at 17 percent during the next half century.

The highlighted modifier above modifies the action of the preceding clause. In essence this sentence can be written as two separate sentences:
1. Japan's population is shrinking faster than that of any other nation
2. The projected decline (of Japan's population) is at 17% during the next half century.

So sentence 2 has been converted into with modifier. This modifier extends the thought of the preceding clause by providing a detail supporting it.

You may see similar usage in OG12#29.
The end of the eighteenth century saw the emergence of prize-stock breeding, with individual bulls and cows receiving awards, fetching unprecedented prices, and exciting enormous interest whenever they were put on show.

The highlighted modifier above modifies the action of the preceding clause. In essence this sentence can be written as two separate sentences:
1. The end of the eighteenth century saw the emergence of prize-stock breeding.
2. The individual bulls and cows received awards, fetched unprecedented prices...

So sentence 2 has been converted into with modifier. This modifier extends the thought of the preceding clause by providing a detail supporting it.

You may view this link for more information on "with modifiers". (https://www.beatthegmat.com/comma-with-e ... tml#376889)

As long as you know that these modifiers are versatile and hence can modify preceding clause and preceding nouns, you would be fine. Let the meaning of the sentence guide you. You should understand the meaning of the sentence and ensure that one of these roles fit well.
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by tanviet » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:13 am
Pls, help, expert

In NOUN WITH PHRASE , with phrase is adjective

The man with light head is good

COMMA+WITH PHRASE can be adjective or adverb.
when it is adverb there are 2 cases
a, the position of COMMA WITH PHRASE must refer to the subject of main clause
b, the position of COMMA WITH PHRASE do not need refer to subject of main clause-as in this question.

Am I correct"
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by navami » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:38 am
Shrinking faster than any other nation's, the projected decline of Japan's population is 17 percent during the next half century.

(A) Shrinking faster than any other nation's, the projected decline of Japan's population is ( Wrong modifier, it should modify Japan's population)
(B) Shrinking faster than any other nation, Japan's population has a projected decline of (Comparison ISSUE- Population is not shrinking faster than any other nation)
(C) The population of Japan is shrinking faster than that of any other nation and is projected to decline by ( Keep this)
(D) The Japanese population is shrinking faster than any other nation, and it has a projected decline at ( Wrong Comparison)
(E) Japan's population is shrinking faster than that of any other nation, with a projected decline at ( Keep this)

C Is a better choice for the way comparison is constructed. decline by is corrct form.
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by tanviet » Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:00 am
navami wrote:Shrinking faster than any other nation's, the projected decline of Japan's population is 17 percent during the next half century.

(A) Shrinking faster than any other nation's, the projected decline of Japan's population is ( Wrong modifier, it should modify Japan's population)
(B) Shrinking faster than any other nation, Japan's population has a projected decline of (Comparison ISSUE- Population is not shrinking faster than any other nation)
(C) The population of Japan is shrinking faster than that of any other nation and is projected to decline by ( Keep this)
(D) The Japanese population is shrinking faster than any other nation, and it has a projected decline at ( Wrong Comparison)
(E) Japan's population is shrinking faster than that of any other nation, with a projected decline at ( Keep this)

C Is a better choice for the way comparison is constructed. decline by is corrct form.
I agree E is wrong because of "at"

but pls, help explain the use of " with ..." phrase at the end of this choice. How to use " with.." phrase here.
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by thulsy » Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:07 am
(E) Japan's population is shrinking faster than that of any other nation, with a projected decline at

I think the parallelism in E is inferior in that the word "that" does not clearly point to "population", which is the intended antecedent. (We know that comparison is a specific concept of parallelism, in a generalized sense.)

Japan's population
that of any other nation

I list as above and see the two structures are not so parallel. It should be something like:

Population of Japan
that of any other nation

In this case that=population, so we have sentence like:
The population of Japan is shrinking faster than that of any other nation, with a projected decline at ...

At this moment, we notice that in the correct choice C, we have this exact parallel structure:
Population of Japan
that of any other nation

So that's the reason I pick C and reject E. Just my two cents... I acknowledge that I'm not a native speaker, so experts please kindly correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks.
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by GMATGuruNY » Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:16 am
duongthang wrote:
navami wrote:Shrinking faster than any other nation's, the projected decline of Japan's population is 17 percent during the next half century.

(A) Shrinking faster than any other nation's, the projected decline of Japan's population is ( Wrong modifier, it should modify Japan's population)
(B) Shrinking faster than any other nation, Japan's population has a projected decline of (Comparison ISSUE- Population is not shrinking faster than any other nation)
(C) The population of Japan is shrinking faster than that of any other nation and is projected to decline by ( Keep this)
(D) The Japanese population is shrinking faster than any other nation, and it has a projected decline at ( Wrong Comparison)
(E) Japan's population is shrinking faster than that of any other nation, with a projected decline at ( Keep this)

C Is a better choice for the way comparison is constructed. decline by is corrct form.
I agree E is wrong because of "at"

but pls, help explain the use of " with ..." phrase at the end of this choice. How to use " with.." phrase here.
COMMA + with at the end of a sentence generally serves as an adverb modifying the action of the preceding clause.
Thus, E implies that the population is SHRINKING with a DECLINE -- an error of redundancy.
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by [email protected] » Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:34 pm
Well guyzzz i observed something in this sentence and so I decided to ask.

Don't you feel that the comparison being done in the sentence C and sentence E is also wrong....

Japan's population should be compared to other or any other nation's population and here Japan's population is being compared to any other nations.


Please reply on this...

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by avik.ch » Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:33 pm
[email protected] wrote:Well guyzzz i observed something in this sentence and so I decided to ask.

Don't you feel that the comparison being done in the sentence C and sentence E is also wrong....

Japan's population should be compared to other or any other nation's population and here Japan's population is being compared to any other nations.


Please reply on this...

Thank You.
In C - the correct one -

The population of Japan is shrinking faster than that of any other nation - here "that" is a demonstrative pronoun and refer to population.

The population of Japan is shrinking faster than the pupulation of any other nation

In E.

Japan's population is shrinking faster than that of any other nation.

Here also, "that" refer to the "pupulation" and is correct.

These two are perfectly ok from comparison point of view.

Hope this helps!!
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by shankar245 » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:31 pm
Hi e-gmat,
So sentence 2 has been converted into with modifier. This modifier extends the thought of the preceding clause by providing a detail supporting it.
The Anasazi settlements at Chaco Canyon were built on a spectacular scale with more than 75 carefully engineered structures, of up to 600 rooms each, connected by a complex regional system of roads.

This is a valid sentence from gmatprep
how does with work here?Please explain
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by confuse mind » Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:01 am
I see an issue with 'at' because at is generally used for rates and not for absolute numbers, for which we use by

decline by 10 points
decline by 10%

decline at 10% per annum

//Here as per the initial sentence, 17% is the absolute number and not the rate which will continue for half the century.
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by gocoder » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:38 am
GMATGuruNY wrote:Shrinking faster than any other nation's, the projected decline of Japan's population is 17 percent during the next half century.

(E) Japan's population is shrinking faster than that of any other nation, with a projected decline at ( Keep this)


COMMA + with at the end of a sentence generally serves as an adverb modifying the action of the preceding clause.
Thus, E implies that the population is SHRINKING with a DECLINE -- an error of redundancy.
Can E be wrong because the idea of the 'with' clause[17% decline in the next half of the centtury] is not contemporaneous with that of main clause that 'Japan's population is shrinking faster', a statement that is a fact/based in present tense ?
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