Harvard MBA HBS 2+2

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Harvard MBA HBS 2+2

by scarter » Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:52 pm
Beat the GMAT Community-- I just wanted to outline my Business School app experience.

I'm a college Junior at a large State University. In May of 2008 a Professor approached me about applying to the new HBS 2+2 Program and I decided to drop a significant internship that I had confirmed for the first half of the summer prior to heading to Oxford University for the remainder of the summer. Currently as I type I'm at Oxford studying Shakespeare in order to finish up a double major in Political Science and English.

From the beginning I decided to put everything I have into becoming a successful applicant, and therefore took out a loan from Sallie Mae in order to receive the very best coaching and consulting prior to applying.

I began working with a Stacy Blackman Consultant in mid May and with Veritas Prep on May 21, in preparation for a June 21 test date.

Over the month period I worked very hard at learning the material. The first week I finished a book a day of the Veritas booklets. However in the second week I took a week break to attend a major conference in Washington D.C. Although I was able to meet Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and John McCain, also watching Hillary's speech conceding her run in person, after returning I felt like this was a poor decision. However I got back on the horse.

I started my GMAT experience at a low point, as you can see. For the two weeks up until the application date I focused mostly on practice test after practice test, which in retrospect I'm evaluating.

GMATPrep 2008-05-20 31 28 500
VeritasPrep 2008-06-12 23 44 570
VeritasPrep 2008-06-14 34 41 610
VeritasPrep 2008-06-15 34 44 630
800score 2008-06-16 44 0 0
VeritasPrep 2008-06-17 27 28 510
VeritasPrep 2008-06-18 24 39 550
GMATPrep 2008-06-18 37 41 640

As you can see I hit 44 on each section in the 800Score test multiple times, but wasn't able to put the two together to achieve a 720.

The two Veritas tests prior to the GMAT Preptest at the end I felt like I was burned out from all of the Practice Testing I was doing daily and it showed.

Prior to test date I was confident nonetheless.

On the test date I arrived at the test at 7:15 am energized about a test that could potentially change my life.

With this in mind I killed the AWA using the Veritas Template Model, achieving a 6.0.

Official GMAT: 38Q/31V 570.

I turned out to be very nervous during the test, and think that I placed too much emphasis on the overall outcome on the test in relation to my getting into HBS. Perhaps the fact that the test was my first official and that I placed so much pressure on myself led to a lessened performance.

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My overall application to HBS otherwise, from a personal humble opinion is above average, other than my GPA, which is a 3.78 Major Average, 3.51 overall.

For the essays, while at Oxford I wrote at least four drafts of each and my Stacy Blackman Consultant worked 1-on-1 with me to bring out my story.

From an extracurricular standpoint, I'm a former Division 1 decathlete on a National Championship track team, started my own non-profit with a Rhodes scholar that has mentored 45 low-income students nationwide in helping them get into the college of their choice, have worked for a few Congressmen and was an Assistant to an Ambassador in writing a book about Presidential Greatness.

The recommendations were very solid too- two page recs from people who know me very well and have close relationships with me- the Dean Emeritus of our Political Science Department and a 2006 Rhodes Scholar who I worked with 1-on-1 on the non-profit. The latter also helped in further drafting the rest of the application in its Final stages while here at Oxford- luckily we were in the same location at New College.

In the section of the application where I could add additional information I stated that I'll be taking the GMAT again in mid-July and sending the new score ASAP, because the 570 I feel is not a fair representation of my capabilities.

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While at Oxford, since I've exhausted all of the Practice Tests and Practice Problems on the Veritas Site, I've bought the Manhattan Online test bank and 6 GMAT CATs.

I think my Preparation has to be more comprehensive. I have not used the OG at all because I felt that computer questions were more skill-specific to the actual test (on a computer). This could be incorrect.

At this point I have 8 days until the test. Perhaps I've given myself less time than is ideal. However I am certain that increasing my score, even significantly, is a definite possibility.

In my opinion, based on the rest of the application, GPA and such, I feel that if I were to score above a 650 on the GMAT I'd have a very legitimate chance of getting in.

Any feedback on preparation for the next week would be appreciated very much. I have honestly given this my all and want to work smart AND hard, rather than just hard, which is most likely what I did last month.

Thank you Beat the GMAT!

SC

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by Sravya.m1 » Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:48 am
Hey even i have applied for the hbs 2+2....took the gmat on june 20th and got a devastating score of 570...
I have got a question for you..!! are you sure that the admissions board will accept your new scores now..?? becoz when i hvae contacted them they said they wouldn't consider any other material once the application is submitted..!!

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GMAT Score:710

by daedalus » Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:52 pm
Hey,

I also applied to the 2+2 program. It seems like you have some amazing extra curriculars. I think I got lucky with the GMAT and I got a 710 and 6.0 after a packed few days of self study. My GPA is just ok, but I'm in the sciences, where GPAs are generally lower so hopefully that counts for something.

What school do you go to? I'm also at a big public institution. Are you going to apply to be a Rhodes Scholar?

Also does anyone have any idea when the first round of interviews goes out?

Good luck with your application,

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by scarter » Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:03 am
In response to the first message, HBS will issue a blanked statement to a random person calling in, because they don't want a flurry of extra information. If you are persistent, have guidance (Stacy Blackman in my case), and know what you're doing and how to deal with this situation, HBS should/will allow you to take the GMAT a second time and will consider the score. Be persistent, give it all you have, and don't doubt yourself. Dare to be different.

I attend Louisiana State University. This Fall I may apply for the Rhodes-- I'm just below the Marshall cut-off of a 3.70. Without some unnecessary electives I would be above that. Congratulations on your 710-- that's very impressive and I'm sure you stand a very good chance of being admitted. From the Stacy Blackman perspective and the Rhodes Scholar assisting me, I may still be granted an interview and be given a shot at HBS, even with a 570. I think with a 640-650, (or a 720 with the sun shining down on me), I could get in, considering the full application.

I am told by SBC that HBS issues interviews all the way up to the interview date. Expect your interview offer around July 25. In other cases it will be August 5. At one point in the process they will send an e-mail out stating that they have issued all interview offers and at that point, if you haven't received an offer, you'll know what that means.

The basic gist of the GMAT is to see if you are willing to work hard and intelligently, and are capable of succeeding at HBS. There is a student here at Oxford right now who attends HBS and every time I see him he is carrying around a portfolio full of papers and work to do. There is a reason why HBS wants 710 GMAT scorers-- you have to be diligent, capable, and willing to seize the day.

Let me know if you have any other advice or thoughts.

All the Best,
SC

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by Sravya.m1 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:12 am
hey thanks for the reply.....I am from India and i had no oppurtunity of any kind of professional guidance...
The following is my profile and may be just you can tell me if i stand a chance...!!
Bachelor of Arts majoring in Political Science and Economics with a university gold medal in both the subjects...We here dont have GPA..our scores are on a scale of 0-100
Alternatively pursuing ERP
Finished Chartered Accountancy Level 1
Doing a distance mode BS in finance

Internship with a National Bank for the upliftment of the backward sections
Will be launching my non-profit online art gallery by december.
I worked in a village succesfully connecting the rural handloom sector with the urban big houses.The families with which i have worked had an 75% income appraisal.

I am an artist and have exhibited my paintings in several galleries.
Captain of Inter collegiate Basketball team
Did a project work on Biodiesel generation.
I work with Mentally Challenged children and street orphans.

I cudnt do my gmat well because i was infected with viral flu.
I am ready to take the gmat again...but in my case becoz i took the gmat on june 20th i had to wait till july 20..So i gave up hope that the admissions board would consider my new score....

Do you think it will help me if i take the gmat again...??
Thanks

All the Best

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by scarter » Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:14 pm
I definitely recommend taking the GMAT again on July 20th. I'm taking mine on the 22nd and have the same score as you. You should definitely inform the admissions board of your score afterward-- they may admit you because of it. You have nothing to lose, only something to gain through trying again. You have a lot going for you and I'm sure if you're persistent, things will work out.

All the Best,
--SC

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by newera » Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:49 pm
Good luck, you guys!!

Your application sounds amazing. GMAT is one of those tests you can actually continually practice and see an improvement.

I read one suggestion that I think I'll take very seriously. Someone mentioned that they kept taking the GMATPrep test over and over until they prettty much all of the questions available. Since these are the closest to the real thing, I think its a very good idea actually.

Just one suggestion.

Stay positive!

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by newera » Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:51 pm
Good luck, you guys!!

Your application sounds amazing. GMAT is one of those tests you can actually continually practice and see an improvement.

I read one suggestion that I think I'll take very seriously. Someone mentioned that they kept taking the GMATPrep test over and over until they prettty much all of the questions available. Since these are the closest to the real thing, I think its a very good idea actually.

Just one suggestion.

Stay positive!

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by smkrn » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:07 pm
Hi,

I applied to the 2+2 program also. Good luck to all of you. And let us all know if any of you hear about any interview invites.

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by scarter » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:19 am
You should expect interview offers around August 1.

I did about two hours of research last night attempting to locate any word of interview offers and discussion by applicants about the program. It's doubtful that they're even close to finished selecting interviewees.

90 students will be selected for this program. Based on what I've read, more than half will be female (50 selected).

It strikes me that all of the writers in this thread are male. Essentially the international competition is for 40 male spots.

I would expect very few to go toward Juniors with Business degrees.

Among the 40 selected, the allotment will probably be as follows:

-10-15 Liberal Arts male students
-10-15 Science and Engineering male students
-10 Wild Cards.

It certainly could trend in a different direction but this would make sense based on what they are looking for.

I would expect about 1,000 people to have applied internationally and could be wrong. Based on typical admissions statistics, about 7-10% of applicants will be accepted. Of the 500 male students, 40 will be accepted.

Again I could be off with these numbers, but given the very narrow profile and class range they are looking for, this would make sense.

For more information read the following article:

https://www.dianakimball.com/2007/11/har ... ng-in.html


Please inform us under this thread when you receive any information about interviews. Thank you!

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by smkrn » Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:39 am
scarter wrote:You should expect interview offers around August 1.

I did about two hours of research last night attempting to locate any word of interview offers and discussion by applicants about the program. It's doubtful that they're even close to finished selecting interviewees.

90 students will be selected for this program. Based on what I've read, more than half will be female (50 selected).

It strikes me that all of the writers in this thread are male. Essentially the international competition is for 40 male spots.

I would expect very few to go toward Juniors with Business degrees.

Among the 40 selected, the allotment will probably be as follows:

-10-15 Liberal Arts male students
-10-15 Science and Engineering male students
-10 Wild Cards.

It certainly could trend in a different direction but this would make sense based on what they are looking for.

I would expect about 1,000 people to have applied internationally and could be wrong. Based on typical admissions statistics, about 7-10% of applicants will be accepted. Of the 500 male students, 40 will be accepted.
Interesting analysis. However, I'm not so sure that they will admit 90 students this year. HBS's statements have been that they want to eventually grow the 2+2 admits to ~10% of the class (so about 90 students). But that doesn't necessarily mean they will do it this year. HBS has also said that they don't know how many people they will admit this year, and that they will let the strength of the applicant pool determine the number of spots they award. Personally, and this is my own personal guess which is not substantiated by anything, I think they will admit around 40 students this year. But that's just me.

Also, I would say that HBS will admit virtually no students with business degrees (not just few, as you've said). This is based again on HBS's comments about the 2+2 program. If you look in the FAQ on the 2+2 website, HBS says that students with traditional business backgrounds and degrees should apply through the regular application process, not 2+2. If what they say is true, they aren't looking for students with business backgrounds through 2+2.

As far as females, I also wouldn't be surprised if roughly 50% of the admits go to women. But again, no one really has any idea how this will actually turn out - this is the first year of the program.

You said that you guess there were 1,000 international applicants. How did you come up with this number for internationals?
Last edited by smkrn on Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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by Sravya.m1 » Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:08 am
hey i am a female..!! :D and scarter it was an interesting analysis..

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by legend2005 » Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:26 am
I'm much more interested to see what you all speculate as far as the number of those invited to interview. After all, class composition will likely depend upon the relative success of personal interviews. HBS interviews--particularly for this new program--are very important.

Smkrn: I think he meant that 1,000 was the number of applicants worldwide. NOT just the number of those applying outside the states.

Scarter: Why do you predict that interview invitations will be sent two weeks from today as opposed to next week (as in your earlier post)?
Do you get this feeling from reading the HBS admissions blog?

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by smkrn » Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:38 am
legend2005 wrote:I'm much more interested to see what you all speculate as far as the number of those invited to interview. After all, class composition will likely depend upon the relative success of personal interviews. HBS interviews--particularly for this new program--are very important.

Smkirn: I think he meant that 1,000 was the number of applicants worldwide. NOT just the number of those applying outside the states.
You're probably right, 1,000 total would make much more sense.

As for the number of interviews, I think you're right in that they will be critical for the 2+2 program. And the hard thing to anticipate about this program is how many offers they will extend after interviews. They might interview 100 people, and then decide to admit only 20, or decide to admit 75, all based on the interviews. They really don't have to let a set number of people in if they decide later that it's not the best course of action. So it's anybody's guess...

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by scarter » Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:26 am
Well put smrkn. I agree with you wholeheartedly on the importance of interviews. Also you are very correct in your emphasis on the class "eventually" reaching 90. Perhaps 40 to 50 will compose this year's class (this would make the most sense given that 20 college seniors are admitted each year to HBS and 90 is the max number 2+2 is looking to eventually fill-- we'll just take a median number). So let's bump the number to 55 total admits.

I would anticipate that the percentage of female admits will be around 53-57% of the total class.

Here is a Wall Street Journal article on the program's push to increase its women applicants:

https://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB ... in_tff_top

Here is a very liberal article on HBS 2+2 and women (it's somewhat tasteless so here's the disclaimer). The final comment from one of our fellow applicants at the bottom, however, is very well put:

https://www.dealbreaker.com/2007/09/22_m ... ard_mb.php

Here is an excellent Harvard Crimson article on the program.

https://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=519505


So to amend the numbers I posted, we can reasonably expect 30 women to be admitted, and 25 men, out of around 1000 total applicants worldwide.

Because this is a first-year program for undergraduates, the median GMAT they are anticipating, as suggested by Stacy Blackman Consulting, is around a 690, median GPA 3.50.

Final Statistics:

Total Applicant Class: 1,000
Total Offered Interviews: 100
Average GMAT Score: 690
Average GPA: 3.50
Total Female Admits: 30
Total Male Admits: 25
Total Male Liberal Arts Admits: 10
Total Female Liberal Arts Admits: 12-15
Total Male Science/Engineering Admits: 10
Total Male Science/Engineering Admits: 12-15
Total Male Wild Card Admits: 5
Total Female Wild Card Admits: 7-10

Percent Offered Interviews: 10%
Percent Accepted: 5.5%

Disclaimer: This is all reasoned speculation and as specified by others, could be different. However, given all of the program information, this seems reasonable.

--SC