Hi,
I have a conditional offer for the MSc Accounting and Finance at LSE. I need to score 650 until mid September.
I took the GMAT once and score a 610 (q47 v28) in March. My CATs were better (last three being 650,640,650). I messed up verbal since I didn't study it much (especially SC) and I had a "burn out" (did 5 tests in the week before the exam..)
I studied about 2 hours on 5 days a week for another 1.5 months now (with breaks due to applications for internships and the following interviews)
I now got a very good internship (4 weeks) at an Investment Bank which I couldn t refuse. It starts in 10 days and I will work 100 hours a week. There is definitely no time to study so I decided I will just spontaneously take a GMAT now (scheduled for wednesday next week; it was the last date applicable in Germany within the next 4 weeks! fate? )
My plan is to retake the GMAT a third time and get 730ish so that i can apply for a H/S/W MBA in about three years from now but I have to focus on sealing the deal for my Master. I just want to get that off the table since it means everything to me!
I took a CAT yesterday ( GMAT test package) and scored a 680 (my best CAT so far). Q went down! to 46 verbal up to 38. I did NOT take the AWA and IR this time.
I had 4 questions wrong in RC, 4 questions in SC and 0 questions on CR.
My first question now is can I skip AWA and IR in the GMAT on wednesday? No matter what score I get I will retake the test and the LSE made the condition of 650 (no requirements for AWA and IR). Especially in verbal I tend to get tired in the end so this might give me the edge?
I studied with:
- 10 MGMAT Strategy Guides
- MGMAT Advanced Quant guide (in the past weeks I only did this guide (100 of the 150 questions done so far); I think my quant went down because I didn't do any basics within the last 6 weeks; only hard questions)
- OG + OG quant + OG verbal (some RC and CR left. Did the first 50 CR without any mistake. I will do the remaining RC)
My plan up to next wednesday now:
- Review SC Strategy Guide, my notes, Idioms and the questions I got wrong (My verbal improvement imo comes from much faster SC -> more time for RC; I will focus on this for the third GMAT as well..)
- Focus on note-taking of RC (didn't take any notes last time, now I take too many I have to sharpen up a bit)
- Review all MGMAT Quant guides (takes about 1 day, I marked everything) and review wrong questions (Archer)
- Overall intend to do a maximum of 4-6 hours a day and take off on Tuesday (at least almost)
Any thoughts on the plan?
And another question: How much will I lose within the 5 weeks internship? I really can't see myself studying at all (won t get home before 4 am and I have to work at the weekend as well) Any ideas how I can keep up (apps with 5-10 questions a day or whatever?)
Thank you very much!!
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2.GMAT in 5 days - conditional offer; skip AWA/IR? + Strat.
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Hi Bobo2014,
The short answer to your question is that NO, you should not plan to skip the Essay and IR on Test Day. Here's why: while the LSE didn't say that there were any requirements for the Essay and IR section, I DO NOT think that the "intent" of that message was for you to skip those sections.
The length and content of the GMAT provide Schools with a way to evaluate your individual and overall skills; skipping the essay will generate a 0 for that section, which for most US Business Schools is a "red flag" - it's essentially cheating (in that situation, you would not be completing the entire exam). While I cannot tell you what any individual Business School would "think" about that situation, I do know that you would NOT want a school questioning the validity of your score.
Your overall study plan sounds fine. There's no way to know how your skills might erode during your internship, so don't worry about it.
GMAT assassins aren't born, they're made,
Rich
The short answer to your question is that NO, you should not plan to skip the Essay and IR on Test Day. Here's why: while the LSE didn't say that there were any requirements for the Essay and IR section, I DO NOT think that the "intent" of that message was for you to skip those sections.
The length and content of the GMAT provide Schools with a way to evaluate your individual and overall skills; skipping the essay will generate a 0 for that section, which for most US Business Schools is a "red flag" - it's essentially cheating (in that situation, you would not be completing the entire exam). While I cannot tell you what any individual Business School would "think" about that situation, I do know that you would NOT want a school questioning the validity of your score.
Your overall study plan sounds fine. There's no way to know how your skills might erode during your internship, so don't worry about it.
GMAT assassins aren't born, they're made,
Rich
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Dan@VinciaPrep
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Hi Bobo,
So I generally agree that it's probably a bad idea to completely skip the writing section. Generally, you want to get at least a 4.5 out of 6. However, I have had a couple students who were borderline 650 who just decided to go ahead and take the risk of skipping and who managed to get into the school's of their choice (Harvard and INSEAD). Also, I know that INSEAD doesn't care too much about the IR as indicated on their website:
"As of June 2012, the GMAT includes an Integrated Reasoning (IR) section which is designed to measure a test taker's ability to evaluate information presented in new formats and from multiple sources. Until there is more benchmarking data available, we will not be using the IR section to review a candidate's performance in the GMAT; we will continue to focus on the quantitative and verbal scores until further notice. However, over time, the Admissions Committee aims to incorporate this section into the overall assessment of a candidate and therefore we expect you to complete the IR section as well."
Furthermore, I have had several students completely skip the IR section without negative repercussions (one of them went to do a masters degree in business at LBS).
So, for most students I would say that they should do the sections if they can. However, if you're on the edge, some of my past experiences seem to indicate that getting a 660 on the GMAT without the IR section would be better than getting a 640 on the GMAT with the IR section. I know that's not what a lot of people say to do, especially on public forums, but I know that it can work. It's a bit risky, but in some situations I think it might be worth taking a chance. Another option would be to just do half of the IR section instead of the whole thing so it doesn't look like you just completely skipped over it.
Hope that helps!
Dan
So I generally agree that it's probably a bad idea to completely skip the writing section. Generally, you want to get at least a 4.5 out of 6. However, I have had a couple students who were borderline 650 who just decided to go ahead and take the risk of skipping and who managed to get into the school's of their choice (Harvard and INSEAD). Also, I know that INSEAD doesn't care too much about the IR as indicated on their website:
"As of June 2012, the GMAT includes an Integrated Reasoning (IR) section which is designed to measure a test taker's ability to evaluate information presented in new formats and from multiple sources. Until there is more benchmarking data available, we will not be using the IR section to review a candidate's performance in the GMAT; we will continue to focus on the quantitative and verbal scores until further notice. However, over time, the Admissions Committee aims to incorporate this section into the overall assessment of a candidate and therefore we expect you to complete the IR section as well."
Furthermore, I have had several students completely skip the IR section without negative repercussions (one of them went to do a masters degree in business at LBS).
So, for most students I would say that they should do the sections if they can. However, if you're on the edge, some of my past experiences seem to indicate that getting a 660 on the GMAT without the IR section would be better than getting a 640 on the GMAT with the IR section. I know that's not what a lot of people say to do, especially on public forums, but I know that it can work. It's a bit risky, but in some situations I think it might be worth taking a chance. Another option would be to just do half of the IR section instead of the whole thing so it doesn't look like you just completely skipped over it.
Hope that helps!
Dan
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Dan@VinciaPrep
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Also- over a 5 week period of time you'll probably get a bit rusty. Things come back fairly fast for most students, but you'll most likely need at least a couple good weeks of studying to get your level and stamina back up.
If my post helped you- let me know by pushing the thanks button
I'm a private tutor in Paris, I provide online and in person consulting for the GMAT and MBA application essays.
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Prepa GMAT
I'm a private tutor in Paris, I provide online and in person consulting for the GMAT and MBA application essays.
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Hi and thanks to both of you.
I took the GMAT, did AWA and IR and scored a 640! You can imagine how disappointed I am. In my case I am sure I really should have skipped the first two parts (in hindsight that I will take the exam again anyway.. the next time I will have to do the AWA part and also be good at IR. My application to the MBA programs will be in three years and I think chances are good that until then the IR section will be important)
I m really not sure why I always score 40-50 points less on the exam than I do on my CATs. I take the test very serious but I am not afraid off it or too nervous.
I will attend the Internship. After that I have another 2.5 months until the LSE deadline for my GMAT condition. I will study very hard that it will work. If I fail on the finish line here..
Here comes the strange part:
In the first GMAT I scored a 47 in quant and 28 in verbal (I don't know what happened there it was by far my worst verbal score. I did many mistakes (such as not taking notes, under preparing for Sc, etc.) though.
After the test I focused on verbal and the MGMAT Advanced quant guide. I improved in my weakest two quant sections (number properties and data series), improved a lot at "plugging in numbers" and "number testing" and did hard questions mostly. On average I had 50% of the advanced quant questions correct on the first try. It took me about 2.5 min instead of 2 though.
In the second exam I had perfect quant timing and felt that its going really good. The questions seemed hard but I managed them well.
Then I messed up the verbal part. It started ok, but I messed up the timing (has not happened before in verbal). I had 15 minutes for the last 15 questions (there even was a fourth RC question within those). I guessed on many questions and could only skim about 10 of them!
Then I got the score of 42q 38v. How is that possible? How can I drop 5 points in quant although it went really good, and improve 10 on verbal although I messed it up totally?
At least it gives me hope that I have the potential to score something like a 49q 40v if I study hard for another 6 weeks and have a good exam. But it also shows that I score very inconsistent and that everything can happen in the next exam. If I truly fail to get my LSE slot because of 10 points on the GMAT.. I don't even want to imagine.
During the internship I will try to do at least some review on sunday mornings before I go to work.
Best regards and thank you very much for your help
I took the GMAT, did AWA and IR and scored a 640! You can imagine how disappointed I am. In my case I am sure I really should have skipped the first two parts (in hindsight that I will take the exam again anyway.. the next time I will have to do the AWA part and also be good at IR. My application to the MBA programs will be in three years and I think chances are good that until then the IR section will be important)
I m really not sure why I always score 40-50 points less on the exam than I do on my CATs. I take the test very serious but I am not afraid off it or too nervous.
I will attend the Internship. After that I have another 2.5 months until the LSE deadline for my GMAT condition. I will study very hard that it will work. If I fail on the finish line here..
Here comes the strange part:
In the first GMAT I scored a 47 in quant and 28 in verbal (I don't know what happened there it was by far my worst verbal score. I did many mistakes (such as not taking notes, under preparing for Sc, etc.) though.
After the test I focused on verbal and the MGMAT Advanced quant guide. I improved in my weakest two quant sections (number properties and data series), improved a lot at "plugging in numbers" and "number testing" and did hard questions mostly. On average I had 50% of the advanced quant questions correct on the first try. It took me about 2.5 min instead of 2 though.
In the second exam I had perfect quant timing and felt that its going really good. The questions seemed hard but I managed them well.
Then I messed up the verbal part. It started ok, but I messed up the timing (has not happened before in verbal). I had 15 minutes for the last 15 questions (there even was a fourth RC question within those). I guessed on many questions and could only skim about 10 of them!
Then I got the score of 42q 38v. How is that possible? How can I drop 5 points in quant although it went really good, and improve 10 on verbal although I messed it up totally?
At least it gives me hope that I have the potential to score something like a 49q 40v if I study hard for another 6 weeks and have a good exam. But it also shows that I score very inconsistent and that everything can happen in the next exam. If I truly fail to get my LSE slot because of 10 points on the GMAT.. I don't even want to imagine.
During the internship I will try to do at least some review on sunday mornings before I go to work.
Best regards and thank you very much for your help
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Hi Bobo2014,
While a 640 was not what you were hoping for, it is a solid score (just shy of the 80th percentile). When applying to a Grad program of any kind, you should remember that the application process involves many different "pieces" and the GMAT is just one of them. If your application gets "hung up", it's not likely that it will be because of a 640. Since your program is accounting/finance, the Q42 might be deemed to be a bit lower than the administrators want (Finance programs tend to put more emphasis on the Quant Scaled Score), but that number isn't terrible.
You mentioned how you thought that the Quant was going well and the Verbal was going poorly, but the scores proved that the opposite actually occurred. The short answer to this mystery is that you didn't take enough FULL-LENGTH practice CATs to truly learn how to gauge your progress and get an accurate "feel" for how well you were doing. The longer answer is that you made a few too many silly mistakes (on questions that you thought you had answered correctly) in the Quant section and far fewer mistakes in the Verbal (even though your pacing was off a bit at the end).
Since you were planning to retake the GMAT anyway, this "intermediate step" is simply that. To score 730+, you'll need to make some significant adjustments to your study habits when you start up again.
GMAT assassins aren't born, they're made,
Rich
While a 640 was not what you were hoping for, it is a solid score (just shy of the 80th percentile). When applying to a Grad program of any kind, you should remember that the application process involves many different "pieces" and the GMAT is just one of them. If your application gets "hung up", it's not likely that it will be because of a 640. Since your program is accounting/finance, the Q42 might be deemed to be a bit lower than the administrators want (Finance programs tend to put more emphasis on the Quant Scaled Score), but that number isn't terrible.
You mentioned how you thought that the Quant was going well and the Verbal was going poorly, but the scores proved that the opposite actually occurred. The short answer to this mystery is that you didn't take enough FULL-LENGTH practice CATs to truly learn how to gauge your progress and get an accurate "feel" for how well you were doing. The longer answer is that you made a few too many silly mistakes (on questions that you thought you had answered correctly) in the Quant section and far fewer mistakes in the Verbal (even though your pacing was off a bit at the end).
Since you were planning to retake the GMAT anyway, this "intermediate step" is simply that. To score 730+, you'll need to make some significant adjustments to your study habits when you start up again.
GMAT assassins aren't born, they're made,
Rich
Hi Rich,
thanks to your fast reply once again.
First I want to say that with my post I didn't mean to criticize your suggestion in any way. I just reread my post and it somewhat sounds like that. I read a couple of your posts before; your suggestions always seem spot on and your interpretations on my earlier posts helped me a lot. This is also the reasons why I followed your advice to take the full test including AWA and IR. I admire your dedication to the forum, truly respect that you help so many of the members to achieve their goals, and think there are not many people out there who have as much knowledge about the GMAT as you do.
Since you are from the US I think you have in depth knowledge of the MBA application process specifically for the US.
The conditional offer that I received from the LSE that I mentioned in my earlier post means that I already got accepted to the program. The condition is that I score a 650. No matter what quant or verbal breakup I have, as long as I score 650 they have to admit me to the program now. That is what a conditional offer means in the UK. I am not sure how it is in the US.
About the CATs. Before my first exam I took 2 gmat prep tests and 5 of the MGMAT tests. on the last three (before the 1st test)I scored 650/640/650. On the third GMAT prep CAT, which I took before the second GMAT, I scored a 680 (q 46, again lower than before but by far not as low as in the real GMAT). Now I have only one GMAT prep and one MGMAT CAT left. Can you recommend any other CATs in particular? I often read that the ones I already did are the most realistic ones.
About the silly mistakes. I guess you are right here once again. I also had the problem on my 680 CAT. When I reviewed my quant section I was easily able to do all the questions I had wrong correctly within the 2 minute span (except two which I really didn't know how to tackle). I didn't make the mistakes on the hardest questions, but on the easier ones. I also think that I got a bit rusty on the basics (which might have led to the sloppy mistakes int he end, among a lack of concentration and other reasons). I should not have focused on the advanced quant guide entirely but in the end the second exam was rather spontaneous..
About my study habits and plan. I would be very grateful if you could give me some advice about how I should proceed with my preparation in a couple of weeks. I will try to evaluate my mistakes and prepare a new study plan. Any suggestions would be deeply appreciated and would help me a lot.
Best regards and again thank you very much for your work.
thanks to your fast reply once again.
First I want to say that with my post I didn't mean to criticize your suggestion in any way. I just reread my post and it somewhat sounds like that. I read a couple of your posts before; your suggestions always seem spot on and your interpretations on my earlier posts helped me a lot. This is also the reasons why I followed your advice to take the full test including AWA and IR. I admire your dedication to the forum, truly respect that you help so many of the members to achieve their goals, and think there are not many people out there who have as much knowledge about the GMAT as you do.
Since you are from the US I think you have in depth knowledge of the MBA application process specifically for the US.
The conditional offer that I received from the LSE that I mentioned in my earlier post means that I already got accepted to the program. The condition is that I score a 650. No matter what quant or verbal breakup I have, as long as I score 650 they have to admit me to the program now. That is what a conditional offer means in the UK. I am not sure how it is in the US.
About the CATs. Before my first exam I took 2 gmat prep tests and 5 of the MGMAT tests. on the last three (before the 1st test)I scored 650/640/650. On the third GMAT prep CAT, which I took before the second GMAT, I scored a 680 (q 46, again lower than before but by far not as low as in the real GMAT). Now I have only one GMAT prep and one MGMAT CAT left. Can you recommend any other CATs in particular? I often read that the ones I already did are the most realistic ones.
About the silly mistakes. I guess you are right here once again. I also had the problem on my 680 CAT. When I reviewed my quant section I was easily able to do all the questions I had wrong correctly within the 2 minute span (except two which I really didn't know how to tackle). I didn't make the mistakes on the hardest questions, but on the easier ones. I also think that I got a bit rusty on the basics (which might have led to the sloppy mistakes int he end, among a lack of concentration and other reasons). I should not have focused on the advanced quant guide entirely but in the end the second exam was rather spontaneous..
About my study habits and plan. I would be very grateful if you could give me some advice about how I should proceed with my preparation in a couple of weeks. I will try to evaluate my mistakes and prepare a new study plan. Any suggestions would be deeply appreciated and would help me a lot.
Best regards and again thank you very much for your work.
