Research MBA Programs

The Goal, work in Brand Management at a CPG in the Tri-state or Boston/Providence area.
Looking to apply for fall 2013

Profile
GPA - 3.35 (Decent Private) - Upswing in grades
Major - Marketing
GMAT - 660, but retaking, assume 700-720 (will take it again if I dont break 700, I have time)
Age - 26(27/28 at mat)
Eth - White US Male
Work Experience -
2.5(4 at mat) - IT Security Analyst - Retail Fortune 100
0.5 - Marketing Analyst - Internet Startup
1.5 - Market Analyst - large global financial institute

While in college, worked full time as an E-marketing Manager at an Inn(2.5 years), and as a Math tutor, part of a few clubs. Since college not much outside of work.

So, I have the marketing undergrad, and lost focus in my professional career, took the job that paid more, fell back on my quant skills.

Schools I'm thinking about -
Kellogg - Dream school, wont get in but have to try
NYU (Stern)
Duke (Fuqua)
UVA (Darden)
Cornell (Johnson)
UNC (Kenan Flager)
Yale (SOM)


Should I try for Tuck? or is that too far of a reach? What other schools should I focus on, or atleast consider, do I even have a shot at a top 20? top 10? top 5?

All in all, which schools have strong ties to CPG firms in the NY/NJ and New England that I have a chance of getting into

highwyre237, why do you say you won't get into Kellogg? Your profile is absolutely fine for Kellogg. They prefer slightly more work experience than you have now (as does Tuck) but if you're not going to apply till next year, you should be in good shape.

The other schools on your list are also appropriate targets, NYU would be especially good. Why no Columbia on the list? We sorta like Stern over Columbia for brand management but it's marginal - both are great for what you're setting out to do.

We think you might be selling yourself short. *Particularly* since you have a year to bolster the profile.

Beyond the GMAT you should also look into some community engagement - nobody ever made it into bschool on volunteer work alone, however it's a good way to offer distinction in your profile. All the schools like people who are involved and active in life, right? So find a cause you can get excited about and dive in with some initiatives that help them grow and improve.

Of course, you'll also want to do the same at work - look for important projects to take the lead on, see if you can suggest improvements or take your team in a new direction. That will give you more to talk about in your essays and can make a big difference in how the adcoms perceive you.

One of the best ways to prepare for a future app is to go through the target school's current essay questions. If you think you'd have trouble answering any of them (e.g., Kellogg's essay 2 on leadership) then you know where you should get to work in terms of boosting your profile!

Also if you're open to Chicago, no reason to not give Booth some love - they're often overlooked for marketing folks but it's a shame, since they have significant strengths academically and with CPG industry connections too.

You seem to have plenty to work with in your profile already. With a stronger GMAT score you're going to have doors open to you (some schools could even be receptive to an app from you this year though we agree that you'll have better luck and more options with top schools if you have a better score).

Good luck with it and let us know if we can help!
EssaySnark

Hi,

Assuming you can make 700 plus score you should definitely try for Tuck. Generally a score above 700 is expected when applying to top schools- so your expected score will definitely help you. Hence the quality of your work (what you did there like-what were your achievements, what initiative you took, what changes you drove in your workplace etc), your academics and beyond academics will play an important role in determining your candidature.

Thank you everyone who answered before, it really did boost my confidence in this whole journey, which I needed, now I need everyone here to be blunt and honest.


So... I took the test again, and although I did better, I didnt break 700

I got a 680, had been scoring between 740-770 on practice tests for the past month... but I got a severe migraine during the test, couldnt stay focused.

Should I take a 3rd crack at it? How would it look if I only eek up to a 700 or 720, would I need a drastic improvement for it not to look bad?

I'm kicking myself over my latest score.

My goal really is Stern or Kellogg, but I'd be very happy with Fuqua or Darden, and am still debating columbia and booth(after reading up on their statistical approach to marketing, it sounds like a perfect fit).

So the main new questions,
should I just move on and be happy with a 680?
would getting over the 700 hump be looked down on if it were on the 3rd attempt?
Would my chances be worse if on the 3rd attempt I had another marginal improvement?

Hey highwyre237 - bummer about the migraine!! That would certainly put a damper on things. The good news is that you still increased the score - getting into the 680 range is certainly helping you! But, as you said in your original post, you "have time" - why not give it a rest for awhile and then come back to the test in a few weeks after you've had a chance to shore things up again?

It's certainly possible to get into any of the schools on your list with a balanced 680 score, though a higher score will help you, particularly because there's lots of guys "like you" applying. We'd be more comfortable with a 680 in Round 1 which we're pretty sure is your plan anyway -- but since that's so far off, why not give this test one more go? Because you have "Analyst" all over your job titles in your career, then the schools might expect a higher score. And getting over the 700 hurdle does help.

Testing two times doesn't hurt at all, particularly because you bumped the score; testing three times also is unlikely to hurt even if you hover around the same level but this has to be your last shot.

No matter what, you should be proud of the 680, and proud of the +20 pt improvement! Lots of people do worse on Test #2 so you're in good shape already. You're lucky that you're not stressing out about essays right now!!! You have a luxury of planning ahead, very smart that you've done so.

Good luck to you and keep us posted on how things go for you!

EssaySnark

Hi,

I'm interested in knowing how you narrowed down your choices. I'm interested in brand management too, and this is where I've applied -

Ross
NYU
Fuqua
UCLA
UT Austin

I understand your choices are more ambitious than mine, but what made you choose UNC and Yale? Yale is nowhere on the marketing rankings. UNC is ranked around #15, so what made you not apply to UCLA, Ross and USC?

I don't mean to sound imposing. I'm just curious about the selection.

Thanks!

No problem in asking.

Mainly I grew up in NY, and have lived in boston on and off since 03. My family still lives in NY, my Fiancee grew up in MA, and her family still lives there, all of our friends and family are in the NYC/Boston area... so, we want to end up in this area post MBA.

Now, I'll be moving with the Fiancee (Wife at that point) to wherever the school I get into is. Our preference in living for her work, and for the overall experience is NY (1st), or Chicago (2nd).

Anyway, the list in the first post was pretty much my first guess at where I'd apply. Now my list looks more like this, if I crush the gmat

Kellogg, NYU, Booth, Columbia, Fuqua, Darden. If 680 is my high, I think booth and columbia come off, and cornell and UNC are put in there.

The reason I left off Ross is because I fear, going into Brand Management, I'd be stuck in the North West, and I really have no interest in living in Michigan for even 2 years
UCLA same issue, but west coast
UT, I lived in Austin for almost a year working at a start-up created by a bunch of UT MBAs, its a GREAT network within Austin and the surrounding areas, but it came off as a bit regional. I LOVE Austin, but dont want to settle down there.

Now, Kellogg, NYU, Columbia and Booth all put us in NY or Chi and gives me great chance of landing a job in the Tri-Stare area.

Fuqua - If my fiancee's job wasnt in question, this would be higher on the list mainly because Johnson and Johnson seem to hire ALOT of Fuqua grads and P&G has a strong presence, these would pretty much be my dream companies.

Darden - I still need to research a bit more to be honest, but its a school that fits the list, ranked top 15, could easily land me in NYC metro, has a decent Marketing rep.

UNC - I sold the fiancee on NC with duke, and UNC was close by, so I threw it in the mix as a fallback plan, but I doubt I'll actually apply, i fear its grads end up predominantly in the south.

Yale - they were on the list, mainly because we could live halfway between new haven and NYC, and the Fiancee could still commute into NYC, but I agree they arent well known for Marketing, and have since fallen off my list, also I really dislike New Haven

Personal fit, to be honest, I detest the idea of a "College town" so... Fuqua, Darden and UNC may not be the best fit, but I know I'd make the best of it. Also, who knows, I havent visited any schools yet, so my opinion may change, but I'd still be worried that the fiancee wouldn't be able to find work.


If I were single, and a bit more open to where I wanted to work geographically post MBA, my list would be different. I'm still changing my school choices, not applying this year so I have time.

This is the best description of a very personal thought process that considers so many factors in deciding on schools that we've ever seen. These are exactly the types of questions that EVERYONE should be weighing.

People, it's not just about ranking!! Thanks, highwyre237, for sharing your parameters with us like this. (And for making us laugh - college town! Funny though, we wouldn't call Michigan "North West" - that threw us!! but we get it.)

Earlier today, before you replied, we went back to that list in response to ketaki6's very legit question, and we were like, "Oh sure, Yale is in the NE, that one makes sense geographically." We still were puzzled by UNC and figured that was your safety school.

Sorta agree re New Haven - in a few years, after Dean Snyder has more time to make his mark and the new building is open, we expect Yale to be a hot commodity, but for now it's not quite the shining star that some of its competitors are. And the "commute" NYC would be no fun. The wife will thank you for skipping the SOM.

UNC isn't that much easier to get into than Duke, though Duke has a better overall brand name (not necessarily better bschool but you'd get way more mileage out of the home university rep).

If you dont wanna live in Mich for 2 yrs are you sure you'd be OK w/ VA (Darden)? Just askin'

Anyway... we're gonna point some peeps to this post since it shows the decision-making that all should be going through. It's not just about the rankings!! Bschool is a v. personal decision, you're gonna live in that town for two years plus your entire life trajectory will LITERALLY be changed based on which school you go to.

EssaySnark

to a new yorker/bostonian, michigan is the northwest but yeah, you know what I meant.

As for VA, yeah, we wouldnt be crazy about living there. The only saving grace is I have a cousin in richmond, and I wouldnt mind only being a few hours away from DC.

Feel free to share my crazy thought process with the community. I agree, an MBA program is all about personal fit, though a school's ranking matters, it isnt always the most important factor. Same thing goes for post MBA career goals. Although I'd make more money in consulting or IB, I'd miss my puppy too much (oh, and the fiancee too)

Thanks for the detailed answer.

I've applied to Ross and NYU. I'm in the process of my Fuqua App. This conversation has definitely made me think about UNC and my options there. I've always been confused about UT Austin but I guess I should give that a thought too. Darden, no offense but I feel I'll get bored there. The essay bored me so much that I actually considered not applying. NYU is my dream school at this point but I'm also trying to understand better which schools would fit me well. And jokes apart I'm not sure about the 100% case study method at Darden, in terms of how good it is for me.

Does anyone have any strong views on Darden and UNC? To reiterate - I want to get into brand management.

Thanks!

ketaki6, an oversimplified answer for you is, you can use any top bschool to pursue (almost) any career. Any of these programs could help you transition into brand management. What you might want to do is look through the employment reports of these schools and identify ones that have are sending graduates to companies you'd want to work for, and which has higher %s going into marketing functions or CPG or whatever you're targeting. This is one type of "proof" that a school has strength in the area you're interested in.

Brand management is a very common post-MBA track, though obviously not as popular as consulting and finance. Because of that, we're a firm believer in "you get out of it what you put into it" -- in other words, you can use most any MBA program as a springboard into this direction. And, as counterintuitive as it may be, at some schools that are not as well known for brand management, it might be *easier* because there would be fewer competition from other students interested in the same thing. You'd just want to investigate whether your target school has the profs and classes that you feel are most important to you. Schools like Kellogg and Chicago that have deep roots in marketing are going to have more resources and offerings in the area, but that doesn't mean other schools are deficient.

Another aspect is geography, as we've been discussing in this thread. If you're coming to the US and then going back to your home country, brand and network may matter more, but if you're going to work in America for your first post-MBA job, then the region in the US where the school is located can matter A LOT. Some schools seem to be more regional in their job placements; UT-Austin is one, as is UNC and also Duke to an extent. A Kellogg MBA can expect to go anywhere in the country/world; a McCombs MBA will find a much higher concentration of opportunities closer to the school.

These slightly lower-ranked programs also tend to work really hard to get opportunities -- not to say the upper echelon of programs do not work hard, but the point is that the underdogs are sometimes more motivated to go the extra mile for their graduates. For example: We've had two reports in the past few months of our former clients who are now graduating from their respective schools in areas that were not the schools' primary strengths -- Georgetown in real estate, and Emory in private equity -- and both reported that they got tremendous support from the school and alumni networks, working hard to expand the school's industry reach.

OK, on your specific question:

If you're not keen on 100% case method, then we think that rules Darden out for you. That is a VERY important point to recognize, so you're smart to be thinking about that in advance. Not sure what the issues were with the Darden essays but by contrast, that does not seem to be a reason to rule them out (most of our clients struggle mightily with the Darden essays - completing them is not a trivial task - sorta surprised to see this comment!). Both Darden and UNC could be a good for brand management based on everything laid out above.

In our very subjective opinion, NYU would be the best choice, of the list you've got, looking just one directionally at this question (i.e., not looking at whether you're a match to them, only if they're a match to brand mgmt); we'd probably put Duke next, then Ross and Darden quasi-equivalent, then UNC. Again, just an offhand EssaySnark ranking which is probably near-meaningless in reality.

The one we'd toss out that should also go on this list is Columbia (and Kellogg and Chicago of course). If your profile is strong enough for NYU or Darden, it is strong enough for any of these others.

So there's way more than $0.02 from us - hope it helps!
EssaySnark

Hi EssaySnark,

Thanks for this write up. Really! I got so immersed in the application process that I needed to stop and think about what's good for me, and really wanted a different perspective.

I have missed the UNC deadline for R1 and R2 and I doubt I want to apply in R3. So I guess I'll let that one go. But I will give Darden a second thought. And Columbia is definitely there on my list, but since the deadline is way off the others, I will reconsider my options once I have received results from other universities.

Talking about R3, do you think one holds a chance applying to a good school in R3? I didn't want to even stretch it to R2, but I couldn't help it. Took my GMAT really late.

Regarding the Darden essay, it is about leadership at the workplace and the impact of globalization on it. I don't quite take very well to such essays. I am a pro at the goals essay now because I've written it so many times over, and the personal essays I am good at. It's these essays (Darden's) that I find hard to even start with. But in any case, I guess Darden is a school worth considering.

I honestly, am the most keen on NYU. When I spoke to it's students, visited the building and went through the volumes of material on their website, it really drew me towards itself. But considering my profile, I think it's a long shot. Who knows!

Thanks again!

Ketaki6 - a big (and IMPORTANT) clarification for you and anyone else who might wander into this thread:

The literal number of a school's application round doesn't matter; the DATE of the round is what matters.

So:

A. Round 3 for UNC is still a completely viable option, since it's in January
and
B. To have a real shot at Columbia, you must apply NOW

You're right - a "Round 3" application is not a good idea - but by "Round 3" we mean the March/April deadline, the very last one that any school offers.

Here's more on the ill advised-ness of Round 3: https://essaysnark.blocked/2011/02/ ... l-now.html

And here's more on Columbia: https://essaysnark.blocked/2010/11/ ... umbia.html

Round 1 is preferred. Round 2 is often just fine. Round 3 is when it gets tricky. And Columbia's rolling process is confusing.

Hope this makes sense but if not, please ask - this stuff is important!!!

EssaySnark

Hi EssaySnark,

You recently advised me to apply to Columbia ASAP inspite of their deadline being April. That really opened my eyes.

I have another question - Is it too late to apply to Cornell? It is a school I am keeping as a back up-a very good back up. R3 is Jan 25th and though the number '3' is there, I feel it still might be a reasonable time?

Could you help me out?

Thanks!