SC1000 Q708

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SC1000 Q708

by neha.patni » Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:10 am
708. The Coast guard is conducting tests to see whether pigeons can be trained to help find survivors of wrecks at sea.

(A) to see whether pigeons can be trained to help find
(B) to see whether pigeons can be trained as help to find
(C) to see if pigeons can be trained for helping to find
(D) that see if pigeons are able to be trained in helping to find
(E) that see whether pigeons are able to be trained for help in finding

OA A

Why it can't be B? Please provide explanations.

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by arora007 » Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:43 am
"trained to" is idomatic
"trained as" is not....
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by sharkin » Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:37 am
My doubt is regarding the the correct use of "THAT" ...

What if, one of the given options was: "that see whether pigeons can be trained to help find" ? Is it correct? How do you see it in comparison to option A?

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by paes » Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:41 pm
Can somebody explain in A :

....to help find ....

what type of construction it is ?

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by e-GMAT » Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:51 pm
sharkin wrote:My doubt is regarding the the correct use of "THAT" ...

What if, one of the given options was: "that see whether pigeons can be trained to help find" ? Is it correct? How do you see it in comparison to option A?
Original Sentence:
The Coast guard is conducting tests to see whether pigeons can be trained to help find survivors of wrecks at sea.
What does the sentence mean: The sentence shows a fact that Coast Guard is conducting some tests. It further states the purpose of these tests.

Your choice:
The Coast guard is conducting tests that see whether pigeons can be trained to help find survivors of wrecks at sea.

This sentence has SV pair that does not make sense. "That" refers to tests. Thus the subject-verb pair for the clause 'that see...' is 'tests-see'. This does not make sense since tests cannot see. Furthermore, the original sentence implies that by conducting these tests, the coast guard will see whether the pigeons can be trained.

I hope this makes sense.

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by robosc9 » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:58 am
e-GMAT wrote:
sharkin wrote:My doubt is regarding the the correct use of "THAT" ...

What if, one of the given options was: "that see whether pigeons can be trained to help find" ? Is it correct? How do you see it in comparison to option A?
Original Sentence:
The Coast guard is conducting tests to see whether pigeons can be trained to help find survivors of wrecks at sea.
What does the sentence mean: The sentence shows a fact that Coast Guard is conducting some tests. It further states the purpose of these tests.

Your choice:
The Coast guard is conducting tests that see whether pigeons can be trained to help find survivors of wrecks at sea.

This sentence has SV pair that does not make sense. "That" refers to tests. Thus the subject-verb pair for the clause 'that see...' is 'tests-see'. This does not make sense since tests cannot see. Furthermore, the original sentence implies that by conducting these tests, the coast guard will see whether the pigeons can be trained.

I hope this makes sense.
Hi,

What is the key difference between

"pigeons can be trained to help"

"pigeons can be trained for helping"

How do we decided which choice is better (considering everything else in the sentence is the same)

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by GmatKiss » Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:11 am
neha.patni wrote:708. The Coast guard is conducting tests to see whether pigeons can be trained to help find survivors of wrecks at sea.

(A) to see whether pigeons can be trained to help find
(B) to see whether pigeons can be trained as help to find
(C) to see if pigeons can be trained for helping to find
(D) that see if pigeons are able to be trained in helping to find
(E) that see whether pigeons are able to be trained for help in finding

OA A

POOR post, without any underline, bold of the portion under study.
IMO: It will not help any :(

Why it can't be B? Please provide explanations.

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by mundasingh123 » Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:34 am
e-GMAT wrote:
sharkin wrote:My doubt is regarding the the correct use of "THAT" ...

What if, one of the given options was: "that see whether pigeons can be trained to help find" ? Is it correct? How do you see it in comparison to option A?
Original Sentence:
The Coast guard is conducting tests to see whether pigeons can be trained to help find survivors of wrecks at sea.
What does the sentence mean: The sentence shows a fact that Coast Guard is conducting some tests. It further states the purpose of these tests.

Your choice:
The Coast guard is conducting tests that see whether pigeons can be trained to help find survivors of wrecks at sea.

This sentence has SV pair that does not make sense. "That" refers to tests. Thus the subject-verb pair for the clause 'that see...' is 'tests-see'. This does not make sense since tests cannot see. Furthermore, the original sentence implies that by conducting these tests, the coast guard will see whether the pigeons can be trained.

I hope this makes sense.
Hi Payal Could you please explain option B
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by gunjan1208 » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:18 pm
My strategy to solve this question was:"Help Find"-- that's the right option. Rest of the sentence is absolutely correct. The only distorted portion really is "Help find" on other options.

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by e-GMAT » Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:45 am
robosc9 wrote: Hi,

What is the key difference between

"pigeons can be trained to help"

"pigeons can be trained for helping"

How do we decided which choice is better (considering everything else in the sentence is the same)
In this sentence "to help" is correct. In this sentence the inherent meaning that you want to communicate is "purpose" or "intention". Pigeons can be trained - trained to do what - trained to help. You are telling the purpose of "training".

"for verb-ing" is NOT always INCORRECT. Do not eliminate an answer choice just because you see this construction. You need to evaluate this on a case by case basis.

When is "to verb" better than "for verb-ing" - When the intended meaning explicitly states the intention or purpose.
Example: In this sentence, it is apparent that the PURPOSE of reducing software prices is TO decrease the incentive for pirating. Thus, in this sentence "to decrease" is correct.

Now lets see a correct usage of "for verb-ing"
OG12# 40: Dr. Tonegawa won the Nobel Prize for discovering how the body can constantly change its genes to fashion...

In this sentence, "to discover" will be incorrect since it will change the intended meaning of the sentence. The sentence implies that Dr. Tonegawa won the Nobel Prize. It then explains what for he won the Nobel Prize. He won it for discovering how the body changes...

If we replace for verb-ing with "to verb" here, then the sentence will imply that the purpose of Dr. Tonegawa to win the Nobel Prize was to discover how body changes...

Thus, if the context of the sentence requires you to express an INTENT, then you should use "to verb". Now some words require use of "to verb" because of their inherent meaning. This is tested in Questions 51 & 73.

In #51: ability for distinguishing is incorrect. It should be ability to distinguish. This makes complete sense. When we express the idea of "ability", automatically we think "ability to do something" - So the idea of INTENT comes in and hence we should use ability to verb and not ability for verb-ing.

Similarly in #73 - when we say the word "equipped",the meaning is such that we know that there is an intent involved. People are equipped to do something. There is an intent behind getting equipped. And hence "equipped to verb" is more appropriate.

Also check out Question #15. In this question, "to take" is correct and "for taking" is incorrect. This is because the intended meaning here is to show the purpose.

Here are some OG12 questions in which "for verb-ing" is correct:
6, 106, 107

Take-Away Message
We should use "to verb" in place of "for verb-ing" when the meaning has show "intent". In certain other cases, "to verb" will not make sense since "intent" is not the correct meaning. In certain other cases, both to verb and for verb-ing will be correct. Go with the context...

Let me know if you have any doubts about this.

Payal

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by robosc9 » Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:03 am
e-GMAT wrote: Here are some OG12 questions in which "for verb-ing" is correct:
6, 106, 107
Thank you so much for a detailed explanation!

I was reading question 107 (OG12). None of the choices have 'to develop'. My question is - had choice A been:

"Originally developed to detect air pollutants,....."

instead of

"Originally developed for detecting air pollutants,....."

Would it still be correct? (The infinitive 'to' fits here to state intention?). Please let me know! Thanks!

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by 1947 » Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:00 am
Hi Payal......Than ks a lot for this explaination

can you please let me know the sentence structure for option B

that it hampers the ability of some children to
distinguish discrete sounds and words and, as a
result
, to make

what is "as a result" should we not read this while reading the complete sentence to make better sense ?

I am confused when I see some thing separated by 2 commas

Thanks
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by e-GMAT » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:52 pm
robosc9 wrote:
e-GMAT wrote: Here are some OG12 questions in which "for verb-ing" is correct:
6, 106, 107
Thank you so much for a detailed explanation!

I was reading question 107 (OG12). None of the choices have 'to develop'. My question is - had choice A been:

"Originally developed to detect air pollutants,....."

instead of

"Originally developed for detecting air pollutants,....."

Would it still be correct? (The infinitive 'to' fits here to state intention?). Please let me know! Thanks!
Yes in this sentence both "to verb" and "for verb-ing" are correct.
"To verb" - the intention of developing the technique.
"for verb-ing" - the purpose of the technique

Originally developed (with the intention) to detect air pollutants, ...
Originally developed (for the purpose) for detecting air pollutants, ...

Hope this helps.

Payal

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by e-GMAT » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:54 pm
1947 wrote:Hi Payal......Than ks a lot for this explaination

can you please let me know the sentence structure for option B

that it hampers the ability of some children to
distinguish discrete sounds and words and, as a
result
, to make

what is "as a result" should we not read this while reading the complete sentence to make better sense ?

I am confused when I see some thing separated by 2 commas

Thanks
Hi 1947,
I would be happy to help out, but can you please post the complete sentence. I could not find this sentence discussed in this thread.
Thanks,
Payal

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by mundasingh123 » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:12 pm
e-GMAT wrote:
robosc9 wrote:
e-GMAT wrote: Here are some OG12 questions in which "for verb-ing" is correct:
6, 106, 107
Thank you so much for a detailed explanation!

I was reading question 107 (OG12). None of the choices have 'to develop'. My question is - had choice A been:

"Originally developed to detect air pollutants,....."

instead of

"Originally developed for detecting air pollutants,....."

Would it still be correct? (The infinitive 'to' fits here to state intention?). Please let me know! Thanks!
Yes in this sentence both "to verb" and "for verb-ing" are correct.
"To verb" - the intention of developing the technique.
"for verb-ing" - the purpose of the technique

Originally developed (with the intention) to detect air pollutants, ...
Originally developed (for the purpose) for detecting air pollutants, ...

Hope this helps.

Payal
Hi Egmat whats the difference between Intent and purpose . I think both mean the same

In 1 of your posts above you mentioned that to verb could also be used to indicate purpose .Then doesnt this post contradict that post
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