Strategy for second attempt. Help needed !!!

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I gave my GMAT a few days back and got a score of 600. I had prepared for around 3 weeks and had given three practice tests ( Two GMAT preps and one Kaplan). My scores in the tests ranged from 660 - 720. I do not have any unrealistic expectations from myself so my target score is around 700-720. My preparation for the exam was fairly good but frankly, I did not expect to achieve my target in the first attempt, mainly because I had prepared for a few weeks only ( I had managed to complete the OG and the supplementary guides though). But I least expected a score of 600.

My experience of the test : I was lost in the first question itself and that hit my confidence badly.For the remainder of the Quant section, I felt I was in the moderate difficulty level but each question took me so long to answer that I had 10 questions to solve with around 3 minutes remaining . This got worse when I had to solve 5 questions in 1 minute and I ended up guessing all of them. The entire experience of the Quant section was very depressing. I can practice all I want ( I got about 85% of the questions correct in the OG), but the bottom line remains that I bombed at the test because I couldn't complete the problems in the stipulated time. I find it very difficult to read, grasp and solve the problem within 2 minutes. The Quant section destroyed my confidence and the verbal section followed in the same vein. I am pretty confident about the verbal section because I have given the CAT (Verbal - 99.6 percentile) and CET (verbal - 99.2 percentile) exams in India and the verbal sections in these tests are pretty much the same level as that of the GMAT. Timing wasnt an issue too as I finished the verbal section 5 minutes beforehand. It was just that my confidence was shattered by the time I started Verbal.

I am taking a few days off studies and restarting my studies in about 2 weeks. I am planning to sit for my next exam in the first week of April. Please advise how to go about my preparation this time. Also, how badly did my guessing the last 5 questions of Quant affect my score?

I am not an exceptional student but I have been a good student for the most part of my student life.
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by David@VeritasPrep » Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:05 am
There are many people in your position. Timing and overall strategy are two areas where people have a real misunderstanding or have not even really focused enough attention.

As you get ready for the retake you need to focus on a few things:
  • 1) You need to understand that the GMAT is about getting questions right, not about the fear of missing questions. This may seem like a small distinction but it is not. The game show "Who Wants to be a Millionaire" is about not missing questions. If you miss one then you go home. The GMAT is not like this at all. Everyone misses questions on the GMAT and for you to end up with "10 questions to solve with around 3 minutes remaining " is not acceptable. You can see that this is more than 1/4 of the quant section to do in less than 1/7 of the time. I bet if you had a chance to look at those last 10 questions more than 1/2 of them would be questions that you could have done in less than 2 minutes. But you had no chance because of what happened earlier in the test. The following article discusses just this point. https://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2011/01/ ... n-the-gmat

    2) Focus on the areas of Quant that you are already pretty good at first. This is something that I have been advocating with good results. You see, instead of working on your worst areas so that everything is pretty good it might be a better idea to get many areas up to a level of proficiency where you even look forward to such problems! For me I love ratio problems, most word problems, yes/ no data sufficiency and some others. If there are some areas that you are already pretty good at why not work some more on those areas until you feel you can do any problem within the time limits. If you do not get to spend as much time with advanced subjects that appear less on the test (for example coordinate geometry, probabilities, standard deviation, permutations) then you may have to skip these on test day. The difference will be that instead of you have 3 minutes to do 10 problems - some of which you might actually enjoy - you might have to skip a couple of problems on the test based on subjects that you are not particularly good at. My test is this, if you find that when you read a question you are having trouble getting started with it AND it is a type of question that you often miss in practice, that is a prime candidate to guess and move on.

    3) Develop strategies for not making "silly mistakes." With everything said above, perhaps the most important thing you can do is to not make errors in reading or answering the questions that you do attempt. Remember that the GMAT tries to trick you into answering the wrong question (for example the wrong angle from a triangle) or trick you into making some error that when you look back you say, "that was a silly mistake." You must avoid these! It is not a tragedy for you to recognize within 45 seconds that a question is not for you and then to guess and move on. A tragedy is when you spend 2.5 minutes on a question that you can get right, you do everything right and then make a tiny error at the end and miss it just as surely as if it was written in a foreign language. Develop techniques to avoid these errors. Do not ignore these errors when you make them and say, "I won't do this on test day." Find ways to make sure you won't do it on test day.
Anyway those are some thoughts!
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by Ryandmitri » Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:19 pm
Hi David,

Thanks a lot for taking the time to reply. BTW, I got a score of 42 in the quant section( I guess this shows that most of the questions I attempted were correct). I feel that if I work a little bit harder on getting my timing right I should hit the high 40s mark. I got a 30 in the verbal, but like I said, it was my performance in the quant that affected me. Ofcourse, that doesn't mean that there is no scope of improvement in the Verbal section as well. I am pretty confident about my RC's and CR's. When I was practising with the OG, I got about 90% of these questions correct. Its the SC that troubles me. I usually get only about 60% correct. I've heard that the Aristotle SC Grail is a good book, but is it enough or do I need to use it as a supplement with some other study materials?

I am planning to use the following books for my second attempt :

1) Aristotle SC Grail
2) RC 99
3) Powerscore CR Bible
4) Manhattan Guide ( Number Properties)
5) Manhattan Guide ( Equations, Inequalities etc.)
6) Manhattan Guide ( Word Translations)
7) Manhattan Guide ( SC)

Are these good enough or do I have to add/replace a few of them.

Also which practise CAT tests would you recommend?

Thank You,
Regards.

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by lunarpower » Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:48 am
David@VeritasPrep wrote:3) Develop strategies for not making "silly mistakes." With everything said above, perhaps the most important thing you can do is to not make errors in reading or answering the questions that you do attempt. Remember that the GMAT tries to trick you into answering the wrong question (for example the wrong angle from a triangle) or trick you into making some error that when you look back you say, "that was a silly mistake." You must avoid these! It is not a tragedy for you to recognize within 45 seconds that a question is not for you and then to guess and move on. A tragedy is when you spend 2.5 minutes on a question that you can get right, you do everything right and then make a tiny error at the end and miss it just as surely as if it was written in a foreign language. Develop techniques to avoid these errors. Do not ignore these errors when you make them and say, "I won't do this on test day." Find ways to make sure you won't do it on test day.
here's a post i wrote on this topic, in case you're not sure how to develop such techniques:
https://www.beatthegmat.com/strategies-f ... html#73619
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by lunarpower » Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:24 am
Ryandmitri wrote:mainly because I had prepared for a few weeks only ( I had managed to complete the OG and the supplementary guides though).
if you got through the whole OG *and* the whole supplementary guides (plural) in "a few weeks only", then you definitely weren't reviewing them anywhere near thoroughly enough -- you were probably just doing problem after problem after problem after problem. unfortunately, this is not a test on which that kind of approach will give you much of a benefit.

try going back through those problems and doing this:
https://www.beatthegmat.com/550-to-720-i ... tml#330724
... that should take you a lot longer than a few weeks, and it should be much more productive, too.
REMEMBER,
the problems that are currently in front of you are not the point!
the only way in which practice problems are valuable is to give you GENERALIZED LESSONS that will apply to FUTURE problems!

if you just solve a problem and move on, you are deriving essentially zero benefit from that problem if you don't figure out some lesson that is general enough that it could help you solve other problems that don't look exactly like the one you just solved.
My experience of the test : I was lost in the first question itself and that hit my confidence badly.
here are some numbers for you:
the highest quant score is 51.
you can get a 50 while missing as many as 8-10 problems.
you can get a 49 while missing as many as 12-14 problems.
(play around with GMAT PREP if you don't believe these numbers)
you see where i'm going with this -- you are going to miss a lot of problems, AND THAT'S OK.

you don't want to have the attitude that you need to get all of the problems right on this test -- that's a lot like having the attitude that you have to catch every fish in a river. if you have that attitude, then you're going to waste all of your effort fighting the most obnoxious fish, rather than simply throwing it back and catching a bunch of easier fish instead.
For the remainder of the Quant section, I felt I was in the moderate difficulty level
DO NOT THINK ABOUT DIFFICULTY LEVELS WHILE YOU ARE TAKING AN EXAM.
EVER.


this is nothing but a waste of your focus -- you won't be able to judge the difficulty level of questions accurately. (and, even if you could, what would you do about it? if you had that knowledge, it would serve no purpose other than to increase your stress level when you encountered "difficult" questions.)

you need to pay 100% of your attention to two things: (1) time management, (2) solving the problem that is directly in front of you.
this means that you will have 100 - 100 = 0% of your attention left for things like (a) "difficulty levels", (b) trying to track the number of problems you got right and wrong, (c) trying to predict scores, etc.
but each question took me so long to answer that I had 10 questions to solve with around 3 minutes remaining . This got worse when I had to solve 5 questions in 1 minute and I ended up guessing all of them.
this is not cool.

check out the AUGUST 5 presentation here:
https://www.manhattangmat.com/thursdays-with-ron.cfm
The entire experience of the Quant section was very depressing. I can practice all I want ( I got about 85% of the questions correct in the OG)
the OG isn't adaptive, so your % correct in the OG is not meaningful.
I am taking a few days off studies and restarting my studies in about 2 weeks. I am planning to sit for my next exam in the first week of April. Please advise how to go about my preparation this time.
see the first link at the top of this post -- that will keep you busy for a good long while. most people don't squeeze nearly enough juice out of those OG's.
Also, how badly did my guessing the last 5 questions of Quant affect my score?
it's very bad.
but you're not going to let it happen again ... right?
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by lunarpower » Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:24 am
I am not an exceptional student but I have been a good student for the most part of my student life.
Rest of my Profile :

Age: 25 years

SSC : 84 %
HSC : 82 %
Electronics Engg : 57%
25 is younger than the average age for b-school students. it's not so young as to be ridiculous, but it's still young enough that you'll have to be a little more exceptional than applicants of the median age (27-28).
on the other hand, this also means that you've got some time to beef up your profile, if necessary.

i don't know what "ssc" and "hsc" are. what are these?

also, what are these percentages? sorry -- i don't really know most other countries' grading systems.
Work Exp : 2 years as an operations executive and 1 and half years as an Asst. Trading Manager in a multination firm's branch which is based in Dubai ( Our company is the best in the world in its field)
this sounds like good experiences -- but, before you apply, make sure that you think carefully about the questions that i've mentioned at the bottom of this post:
https://www.beatthegmat.com/i-concede-de ... tml#329081
it's surprising how many people decide that they want an mba without really knowing *specifically* why -- these questions will help you sort that out.
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

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by bblast » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:17 pm
I also took GMAT last week with a month of intense prep.(ended up with an ok split 47/34 but a poor score 650.)

Setting a target of 700 is not very wise with such a short time in prep. Anyways this depends from person to person.
Also I read that you scored 99 percentile(verbal) in CAT(IIM's entrance ?)

The GMAT Verbal level is more subtle than the Indian CAT exam. So do not base your GMAT verbal performance on the CAT.

I would say that if you are looking to go confident for a 700 next time. Take Ron's advise make a solid strategy and of course get the MGMAT math guides. They really helped me to prepare for quant in just 3 weeks !!
Cheers !!

Quant 47-Striving for 50
Verbal 34-Striving for 40

My gmat journey :
https://www.beatthegmat.com/710-bblast-s ... 90735.html
My take on the GMAT RC :
https://www.beatthegmat.com/ways-to-bbla ... 90808.html
How to prepare before your MBA:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upz46D7 ... TWBZF14TKW_

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by Ryandmitri » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:25 am
I'd like to thank each one of you for your time. I have scheduled my second attempt in the first week of April. I hope that I end up with a good score. Meanwhile, please advise if the books I have mentioned in my reply to David are good enough. Do I need to add/replace an books?

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by lunarpower » Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:38 am
1) Aristotle SC Grail
2) RC 99
3) Powerscore CR Bible
4) Manhattan Guide ( Number Properties)
5) Manhattan Guide ( Equations, Inequalities etc.)
6) Manhattan Guide ( Word Translations)
7) Manhattan Guide ( SC)

Are these good enough or do I have to add/replace a few of them.
i'll admit that i'm not familiar with the first two -- i haven't seen the aristotle book, and i've never even heard of a book called "rc99". what is this latter one? who wrote it, and/or who publishes it?

don't forget that you should go back through the OG's, with the advice i've given above -- there is lots more that you can do with those books, if all you've done so far is solve problems and move on.
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by Ryandmitri » Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:10 am
Hi Ron,

I heard about the Aristotle Sentence Correction Grail on this website. Must have been one of the experts. Not sure though.
Actually, its not even a book but just an online publication. It basicaly deals with the basics of grammar and how to approach the different errors that the GMAT usually tests. I read a lot of good reviews about the book/publication and so decided to go for it. The RC99 is also by aristotle (Reading Comprehension) but since I am confident about the RC section I will stick only to the OG12.

https://www.aristotleprep.com/book/arist ... tion-grail

I will ofcourse review the quant section in the OG12. Are a substantial number of questions in OG11 different from the ones in OG12? I remember a lot of the answers in the OG12 (not the actual answers but atleast the method) so I would like to go through another book as well to test my concepts.

Thanks.

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by lunarpower » Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:50 am
Ryandmitri wrote:I will ofcourse review the quant section in the OG12. Are a substantial number of questions in OG11 different from the ones in OG12? I remember a lot of the answers in the OG12 (not the actual answers but atleast the method) so I would like to go through another book as well to test my concepts.

Thanks.
i have conversion tables for the problem #s between og11 and og12; using that table, you can concentrate on only those problems that are not in both books. (about 70% of the problems are in both books, if i remember correctly; this means that between 1/4 and 1/3 of the og11 problems will be new to you.)
pm me with your email address and i'll send you copies of them.
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by Ryandmitri » Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:11 am
Thanks a lot Ron. One last thing. I am planning to give my test on the 05th of April. I am planning to study 3 hours a day on weekdays and around 6-7 hours a day on Saturday with Sunday mostly off ( maybe some light reading for AWA). You reckon this should be enough? I will follow your advice on how to go about my prep but I am not sure if 2 months is enough for that...

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by lunarpower » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:41 am
Ryandmitri wrote:Thanks a lot Ron. One last thing. I am planning to give my test on the 05th of April. I am planning to study 3 hours a day on weekdays and around 6-7 hours a day on Saturday with Sunday mostly off ( maybe some light reading for AWA). You reckon this should be enough? I will follow your advice on how to go about my prep but I am not sure if 2 months is enough for that...
that's too much time.

you shouldn't ever exceed approx. 5 hours of studying in one day -- there is copious research show that this is approximately the upper limit of most adult humans' learning capacity. i.e., any studying beyond that number of hours will not really have much of a benefit.
this doesn't mean that you can't do anything for more than that many hours -- i'm sure all of us have worked on a paper or presentation for 12-14 straight hours at some point -- but those kind of tasks are not learning; they are recitation/production tasks. that's a whole different story.
moreover, this much studying will start to have an adverse affect on your "latent learning", the process that creates lateral connections between topics, as i wrote here:
https://www.beatthegmat.com/620-660-what ... tml#320149

so, taper down the saturdays to about 5 hours. and if you're going to do five hours, you should do it in two separate stints (of 2 to 3 hours apiece), with a rather long break in between.

re: weekdays -- how much free time do you have on your weekdays?
make sure to structure your time so that you have at least 1.5-2 hours of unstructured time during each day. if you have a particularly busy job or long commute, that amount of unstructured time may not leave 3 hours left in the day.

in any case, your question ("is that enough?") is somewhat worrisome to me, because, if there is a problem with the study schedule you're proposing, that problem would be of the "too much" variety, not of the "not enough" variety.
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by Stendulkar » Sun May 08, 2011 4:09 am
Hi Ron,

I am the guy who started this post. Using a different a account now.

I gave my second attempt today and got a 680 (Q-48 , V- 36). Can I say that is a decent enough jump from my first attempt (600 with Q 41 and V30)?

My initial plan was to study for 3 months devoting arnd 3 hrs on weekdays and 5 hrs on weekends. But because of my busy work schedule and constant travelling I could study seriously only for a month. I started studying on the 10th of April for abt 1 hr on weekdays and 3 hrs on weekends.

I don't know what to do now....I want to pursue an MBA in Marketing or International Business ( because I am already in this field). With this score ( and abt 4 yrs of work exp with decent grad scores) can I get into a good college? Any recommendations?

My main question - Do I give a third attempt? I really do not know how to improve. I must say that the MGMAT quant books are exceptional. During my one month of prep I gave the following tests :

MGMAT1 : 650
MGMAT2 : 670
MGMAT3 : 670
GMAT PREP1 : 670 (Q 48, V 35)
GMAT PREP2 : 710 (Q 48, V 40)

So you can say that my level remained constant during the prep. period. The Quant section on the actual GMAT was pretty simple (or was it because of the concepts I learnt from the MGMAT books?), there were no probability or permutations/combination questions but many inequality problems and a few problems related to sets ( abt 4). Verbal though was a killer. I never encountered this level of difficulty on any of the tests I had taken ( including MGMAT!!!). The SC's were very difficult, CR's were alright and RC's were very lengthy and complex ( questions were pretty managable though). I think my concentration tapered down towards the end and with about 15 minutes remaining I was finding it very hard to concentrate.

Should I give a third attempt? Is it of any use? Is there a big diff between 670/680 and a 700?
Will an increase from 680 to 700 require a complete overhaul of my study methods or just a little more effort/luck?

Please help. Thanks as always.

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by lunarpower » Sun May 08, 2011 10:42 pm
Stendulkar wrote:Hi Ron,

I am the guy who started this post. Using a different a account now.

I gave my second attempt today and got a 680 (Q-48 , V- 36). Can I say that is a decent enough jump from my first attempt (600 with Q 41 and V30)?
that's impressive, especially for one month's studying.
why did you change your account?
I don't know what to do now....I want to pursue an MBA in Marketing or International Business ( because I am already in this field). With this score ( and abt 4 yrs of work exp with decent grad scores) can I get into a good college? Any recommendations?
i am not an admissions expert; you may want to direct this type of question here:
https://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/ask ... nt-f8.html

i believe BTG may also have some dedicated folders for admissions-related questions.
MGMAT1 : 650
MGMAT2 : 670
MGMAT3 : 670
GMAT PREP1 : 670 (Q 48, V 35)
GMAT PREP2 : 710 (Q 48, V 40)

So you can say that my level remained constant during the prep. period.
i'm confused -- these exams show a uniformly increasing trend, with a significant difference between the start and end points.
on what basis are you calling this a "constant level"? to me, this is pretty clearly not a constant level -- there is rather obvious evidence of improvement.
Verbal though was a killer. I never encountered this level of difficulty on any of the tests I had taken ( including MGMAT!!!). The SC's were very difficult, CR's were alright and RC's were very lengthy and complex ( questions were pretty managable though). I think my concentration tapered down towards the end and with about 15 minutes remaining I was finding it very hard to concentrate.
ok, but this isn't really anything upon which i can base actual advice -- you haven't really said anything specific.

did you get lost on particular types of problems?
did you feel your concentration slipping away on particular types of problems?

most importantly, what was your STRATEGY for sentence correction?
were there particular types of errors that you looked for before other types?

you should make sure to PRIORITIZE the topics in sentence correction. you can learn as many principles as you want, but make sure that you are always thinking about the following topics FIRST:
* parallelism
* pronouns
* modifier placement/meaning
* subject verb agreement.
this is a short list, but, if you can identify the things in this list EVERY time they appear, you should be able to solve or narrow a majority of the problems based on these principles alone.
until you can do so, it is rather pointless to move on to more obscure rules. this is the problem that i see with people on these forums all the time: they are spending unbelievable amounts of time and energy on obscure rules that may show up in 0.1% of the problems, while still missing huge things like parallelism and pronouns in the same problems.

make sure that you can identify the above errors literally 100% of the time when they appear in the sentences. if you are not at that point yet, then continue to study these principles until you have reached that point before moving onto less important principles.
Should I give a third attempt? Is it of any use? Is there a big diff between 670/680 and a 700?
depends on your background, demographics, race, GMAT, age, and any other unique characteristics. this would be a good question to direct to the above-mentioned admissions professionals.
Will an increase from 680 to 700 require a complete overhaul of my study methods or just a little more effort/luck?
given that you have not posted any information about your "study methods", it is impossible for me to answer this question.
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