730 it is! (Q49, V41). But the real verdict is, if I can do it at 48, 25 years after I graduated, young guys and gals can with no sweat. All you need is an uncompromising determination. So...here goes my story. My dream to return to the academia one day, preferably in India, to teach entrepreneurship and management got revived last November. My classmates who are professors at CMU and other top institutions advised me to start working on my PhD (I have been planning for years now!) ASAP if I'm serious about my objective. My experience as the founder and CEO of a boutique management consulting firm for 15 years, they said, combined with a good GMAT score, will make me an attractive (of course with a few caveats) candidate for top ranking schools (SC buffs can check this sentence for errors!). However they cautioned me to take this effort seriously because they know I have never been serious about my education even though I graduated from reputed institutions in India. I told myself, 'The best time to take GMAT was 25 years back......but the second best time is NOW!'. This is a borrowed quote....not mine. FYI, I have a Master's in Industrial Eng and a Bachelor's in Mechanical dept.
My approach:
Due to my engineering background, I wasn't too concerned about the quantitative part. Moreover, I like Math but detest RC and SC. I have lived in the US for about 20 years now but the limitations of being a non-native speaker linger. So as a first step, I decided to take GMAT without any preparation (I did of course familiarize myself with question types, exam format and try the two GMAC prep tests) to establish a baseline...a 'zero calibration' as I call it. I truly liked the test. They have put in efforts to test not only your academic knowledge but also your decision making skills. The score was 650 with Q48 and V33. 48 in Math was personally disappointing. But what I learned from the test was more interesting.
Quantitative:
I found that I was approaching it like an engineer. I got obsessed with certain problems and spent more than 5 minutes per problem in three instances. My pride was holding me from moving on to other questions. Even though most of basic Math was green in my mind, I had to spend time drawing Venn diagrams and derive equations etc. ..wasting precious time. I was making innumerable careless errors in simple calculations and answered many questions without even reading the problems completely. I was trying to solve too many problems mentally as though it's an anathema to use the yellow pad. In DS, rather than using numeric values to simplify things, I was trying to conceptually prove and disprove. I was losing my cool when I encountered problems that I know I can solve but need more than 3 minutes to solve them.
By early February, I started my serious preparation. Having indentified my shortcomings, I decided to buy Manhattan's SC (more about SC later) book to get access to their 6 tests. I also bought 5 GMAT CAT from 800score. You don't prepare for GMAT quantitative the same way you do for advanced Calculus. I started using this forum on a daily basis. As I started taking the MGMAT and 800score tests, I saw my scores getting progressively better still exposing my areas of weakness. It finally boils down to this. How to correctly identify early that a problem is not worth attempting or continuing any further. It depends on where you are on the test (early part, middle or last few questions), how comfortable you are with the topic, your own personal shortcomings, how much time is left, how you feel about your performance so far, probability of making errors if it involves long calculations etc., because your objective is to maximize your score and NOT solve every problem you encounter. I'm sure guys/gals in 750 plus range will disagree. On the test day, I got to test my technique out. I skipped 3 questions even though I could solve them if given 4 minutes. Also, I learned to relax a little bit during the test. I took 20 seconds mental break.....twice and visualized the days I used to jog on the beaches of Florida and Dubai. In DS, by reading both the 'givens' before I attacked the problem, I could understand the problem better and broaden my thinking.
With all this, I could improve my score by just 1 point.......49 from 48. Go figure! But I have no regrets.
I will post my Verbal prep in a couple of days....a more interesting story! Beatthegmat forum .......as the name says it.....helps you really beat the GMAT!
5-Day Free Trial
5-day free, full-access trial TTP
Available with Beat the GMAT members only code
MORE DETAILS
Back to the Basics......One last time!
This topic has expert replies
-
IamRamki
- Newbie | Next Rank: 10 Posts
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:20 pm
- Location: SJC
- Thanked: 1 times
- GMAT Score:730
Verbal Prep
Critical Reasoning: I was intrigued by it because it reminded me of how I respond when I evaluate proposals. I was able to convert almost all 'Assumption', 'Strengthen', 'Weaken', 'Conclusion' problems to a typical conversation that happens in my normal daily professional life. If you could convert the CR problem to a conversation, the solution would become more obvious. For instance, consider the following CR problem(my own construction...).
The fertility rate in Utopia has been declining for the past several years. This, according to several analysts, will lead to a substantial decrease in population resulting in less demand for housing, lower return on investments from REITs, and slump in home values.
Imagine a meeting in which someone puts forth the above argument. If this were a 'Weaken' question, my response in the meeting would be
" I'm not convinced because ......Utopia could change its immigration and tax policies to attract wealthy individuals and professionals to immigrate mitigating the anticipated decline in population and home prices."
If this were a 'Strengthen' question, my response would be
"I agree. In addition, Utopia's unfriendly immigration policy will make the situation worse.".
If this were an 'Assumption' question, my response would be
"Such a situation is possible only if the apathetic government of Utopia continues to ignore the problem.".
The answer choice that makes the most sense when substituted for the underlined text would usually be the correct answer. I'm sure there are exceptions. But by making it a conversation, I was able to insert myself into the argument making it easy.
I will post my SC and RC prep in a day or two.
PS: I found this article interesting. To learn, quit studying and take a test.....says NY times....
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/21/scien ... ss&emc=rss
Ramki
Critical Reasoning: I was intrigued by it because it reminded me of how I respond when I evaluate proposals. I was able to convert almost all 'Assumption', 'Strengthen', 'Weaken', 'Conclusion' problems to a typical conversation that happens in my normal daily professional life. If you could convert the CR problem to a conversation, the solution would become more obvious. For instance, consider the following CR problem(my own construction...).
The fertility rate in Utopia has been declining for the past several years. This, according to several analysts, will lead to a substantial decrease in population resulting in less demand for housing, lower return on investments from REITs, and slump in home values.
Imagine a meeting in which someone puts forth the above argument. If this were a 'Weaken' question, my response in the meeting would be
" I'm not convinced because ......Utopia could change its immigration and tax policies to attract wealthy individuals and professionals to immigrate mitigating the anticipated decline in population and home prices."
If this were a 'Strengthen' question, my response would be
"I agree. In addition, Utopia's unfriendly immigration policy will make the situation worse.".
If this were an 'Assumption' question, my response would be
"Such a situation is possible only if the apathetic government of Utopia continues to ignore the problem.".
The answer choice that makes the most sense when substituted for the underlined text would usually be the correct answer. I'm sure there are exceptions. But by making it a conversation, I was able to insert myself into the argument making it easy.
I will post my SC and RC prep in a day or two.
PS: I found this article interesting. To learn, quit studying and take a test.....says NY times....
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/21/scien ... ss&emc=rss
Ramki
-
IamRamki
- Newbie | Next Rank: 10 Posts
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:20 pm
- Location: SJC
- Thanked: 1 times
- GMAT Score:730
Verbal Prep..contd.
SC: This is where my work experience was a major impediment. Working with employees/consultants/clients from Russia, South America, India and China, I ignore grammar, language rules and other conventions (read 'idioms') and concentrate on the thought behind the expression rather than the construct of the expression. In a way I would say it's a part of my job description because my objective is to understand the idea behind the statements and not to look for grammatical errors. Of course I restate to make sure my understanding is accurate. When I started to prepare for the test a couple of months back, I realized this and became a literalist and approached the sentence with pessimism, seeking errors. The other problem is congenital. I'm not a native speaker. Similar to what Samuel Jackson once said, I take the English from the meaning, not the meaning from the English. I needed to fix that temporarily till my test. Then I realized that my 3rd grade daughter often talks about diagramming a sentence, propositional phrase, adverbial phrase etc. I used her grammar book along with MGMAT SC book to understand many concepts often tested in GMAT. Looks like I too benefited from paying for her private school. But the most important resource for both SC and RC was the 'Tuesdays with Ron' videos. Ron is none other than LUNARPOWER. I can't thank Ron enough....he is really dedicated. My MGMAT SC book came with one year access to MGMAT tests and Ron's videos, the best investment. Ron, I owe you a drink. Just tell me when and where. Anurag, you too. I'm in the bay area.
RC: Often in real life we read books with prior knowledge of what the main idea of the book is, what the author stands for etc. Here, we are groping in the dark. So my approach to RC was to read it with the objective of criticizing it rather than admiring it or learning from it. I also used Ron's videos from MGMAT. Not all of them but a few. Of course, I got lucky too...there were no biology/zoology related content in my test.
Guys like GMATGuruNY, Anurag and Ron don't just post answers...their explanations and approach truly stand out. Thanks fellas! Your services are really appreciated.
I truly enjoyed the GMAT experience. I live in the bay area. I can spare 45 minutes a week for people looking for firsthand information about my preparation/test experience etc. I might even buy you a cup of coffee.
Regards,
Ramki
SC: This is where my work experience was a major impediment. Working with employees/consultants/clients from Russia, South America, India and China, I ignore grammar, language rules and other conventions (read 'idioms') and concentrate on the thought behind the expression rather than the construct of the expression. In a way I would say it's a part of my job description because my objective is to understand the idea behind the statements and not to look for grammatical errors. Of course I restate to make sure my understanding is accurate. When I started to prepare for the test a couple of months back, I realized this and became a literalist and approached the sentence with pessimism, seeking errors. The other problem is congenital. I'm not a native speaker. Similar to what Samuel Jackson once said, I take the English from the meaning, not the meaning from the English. I needed to fix that temporarily till my test. Then I realized that my 3rd grade daughter often talks about diagramming a sentence, propositional phrase, adverbial phrase etc. I used her grammar book along with MGMAT SC book to understand many concepts often tested in GMAT. Looks like I too benefited from paying for her private school. But the most important resource for both SC and RC was the 'Tuesdays with Ron' videos. Ron is none other than LUNARPOWER. I can't thank Ron enough....he is really dedicated. My MGMAT SC book came with one year access to MGMAT tests and Ron's videos, the best investment. Ron, I owe you a drink. Just tell me when and where. Anurag, you too. I'm in the bay area.
RC: Often in real life we read books with prior knowledge of what the main idea of the book is, what the author stands for etc. Here, we are groping in the dark. So my approach to RC was to read it with the objective of criticizing it rather than admiring it or learning from it. I also used Ron's videos from MGMAT. Not all of them but a few. Of course, I got lucky too...there were no biology/zoology related content in my test.
Guys like GMATGuruNY, Anurag and Ron don't just post answers...their explanations and approach truly stand out. Thanks fellas! Your services are really appreciated.
I truly enjoyed the GMAT experience. I live in the bay area. I can spare 45 minutes a week for people looking for firsthand information about my preparation/test experience etc. I might even buy you a cup of coffee.
Regards,
Ramki
-
bkw
- Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts
- Posts: 116
- Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:34 pm
- Thanked: 6 times
- Followed by:1 members
I have bought the book "Doing Grammar" https://www.amazon.com/Doing-Grammar-Max ... 0195138406 which I hope will useful for SC. Anyone who read it and can comment?IamRamki wrote:Verbal Prep..contd.
SC: This is where my work experience was a major impediment. Working with employees/consultants/clients from Russia, South America, India and China, I ignore grammar, language rules and other conventions (read 'idioms') and concentrate on the thought behind the expression rather than the construct of the expression. In a way I would say it's a part of my job description because my objective is to understand the idea behind the statements and not to look for grammatical errors. Of course I restate to make sure my understanding is accurate. When I started to prepare for the test a couple of months back, I realized this and became a literalist and approached the sentence with pessimism, seeking errors. The other problem is congenital. I'm not a native speaker. Similar to what Samuel Jackson once said, I take the English from the meaning, not the meaning from the English. I needed to fix that temporarily till my test. Then I realized that my 3rd grade daughter often talks about diagramming a sentence, propositional phrase, adverbial phrase etc. I used her grammar book along with MGMAT SC book to understand many concepts often tested in GMAT. Looks like I too benefited from paying for her private school. But the most important resource for both SC and RC was the 'Tuesdays with Ron' videos. Ron is none other than LUNARPOWER. I can't thank Ron enough....he is really dedicated. My MGMAT SC book came with one year access to MGMAT tests and Ron's videos, the best investment. Ron, I owe you a drink. Just tell me when and where. Anurag, you too. I'm in the bay area.
Congratulations on your great achievement. I guess you really hit the nail when you said "How to correctly identify early that a problem is not worth attempting". Can you elaborate your strategy on how to identify early or when to quit solving a problem?IamRamki wrote:730 it is! (Q49, V41). But the real verdict is, if I can do it at 48, 25 years after I graduated, young guys and gals can with no sweat. All you need is an uncompromising determination. So...here goes my story. My dream to return to the academia one day, preferably in India, to teach entrepreneurship and management got revived last November. My classmates who are professors at CMU and other top institutions advised me to start working on my PhD (I have been planning for years now!) ASAP if I'm serious about my objective. My experience as the founder and CEO of a boutique management consulting firm for 15 years, they said, combined with a good GMAT score, will make me an attractive (of course with a few caveats) candidate for top ranking schools (SC buffs can check this sentence for errors!). However they cautioned me to take this effort seriously because they know I have never been serious about my education even though I graduated from reputed institutions in India. I told myself, 'The best time to take GMAT was 25 years back......but the second best time is NOW!'. This is a borrowed quote....not mine. FYI, I have a Master's in Industrial Eng and a Bachelor's in Mechanical dept.
My approach:
Due to my engineering background, I wasn't too concerned about the quantitative part. Moreover, I like Math but detest RC and SC. I have lived in the US for about 20 years now but the limitations of being a non-native speaker linger. So as a first step, I decided to take GMAT without any preparation (I did of course familiarize myself with question types, exam format and try the two GMAC prep tests) to establish a baseline...a 'zero calibration' as I call it. I truly liked the test. They have put in efforts to test not only your academic knowledge but also your decision making skills. The score was 650 with Q48 and V33. 48 in Math was personally disappointing. But what I learned from the test was more interesting.
Quantitative:
I found that I was approaching it like an engineer. I got obsessed with certain problems and spent more than 5 minutes per problem in three instances. My pride was holding me from moving on to other questions. Even though most of basic Math was green in my mind, I had to spend time drawing Venn diagrams and derive equations etc. ..wasting precious time. I was making innumerable careless errors in simple calculations and answered many questions without even reading the problems completely. I was trying to solve too many problems mentally as though it's an anathema to use the yellow pad. In DS, rather than using numeric values to simplify things, I was trying to conceptually prove and disprove. I was losing my cool when I encountered problems that I know I can solve but need more than 3 minutes to solve them.
By early February, I started my serious preparation. Having indentified my shortcomings, I decided to buy Manhattan's SC (more about SC later) book to get access to their 6 tests. I also bought 5 GMAT CAT from 800score. You don't prepare for GMAT quantitative the same way you do for advanced Calculus. I started using this forum on a daily basis. As I started taking the MGMAT and 800score tests, I saw my scores getting progressively better still exposing my areas of weakness. It finally boils down to this. How to correctly identify early that a problem is not worth attempting or continuing any further. It depends on where you are on the test (early part, middle or last few questions), how comfortable you are with the topic, your own personal shortcomings, how much time is left, how you feel about your performance so far, probability of making errors if it involves long calculations etc., because your objective is to maximize your score and NOT solve every problem you encounter. I'm sure guys/gals in 750 plus range will disagree. On the test day, I got to test my technique out. I skipped 3 questions even though I could solve them if given 4 minutes. Also, I learned to relax a little bit during the test. I took 20 seconds mental break.....twice and visualized the days I used to jog on the beaches of Florida and Dubai. In DS, by reading both the 'givens' before I attacked the problem, I could understand the problem better and broaden my thinking.
With all this, I could improve my score by just 1 point.......49 from 48. Go figure! But I have no regrets.
I will post my Verbal prep in a couple of days....a more interesting story! Beatthegmat forum .......as the name says it.....helps you really beat the GMAT!
On a side note, in case you are in Dallas I can buy you a cup of coffee
-
[email protected]
- Newbie | Next Rank: 10 Posts
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:54 pm
Hearty Congratulations.Thanks for posting inspiring real story. Can I talk to you over the phone or chat regarding GMAT.
I only have 3 and a half years of work experience(IT). I am planning to do MBA, is that a good idea or is it too early?
I only have 3 and a half years of work experience(IT). I am planning to do MBA, is that a good idea or is it too early?
-
IamRamki
- Newbie | Next Rank: 10 Posts
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:20 pm
- Location: SJC
- Thanked: 1 times
- GMAT Score:730
Yashchase,
Mock tests will help you answer the questions for you. when you prepare/learn for the tests, you do it like an academic researcher but when you take the test do it like you are playing a video game. Making impelling decisions under stress will become your second nature (if you don't have it already!). I don't think there is a cookie cutter formula/boilerplate matrix you can use to make the decision. It's very subjective. The best way to accomplish it is by taking as many test exams as possible and fine tune your decision making. By reviewing the results, you can validate whether the decision to skip a particular question was right.
If it was a wrong decision, ask yourself the following questions.
Why did you choose to skip?
was it an informed decision?
Did you misunderstand the question and skip it?
Was it an emotional decision rather than an intellectual one?
Was it a premature decision on your part to skip?
A few questions, you will realize that you should have skipped but didn't. In those cases ask yourself the above questions with the word 'skip' replaced with 'attempt'.
In other words, train yourself in decision making by iterative test taking. It gets better with practice....practice under identical GMAT conditions, study yourself...you may surprised to know that you have a few latent talents. Soon enough you will be an expert in making this decision. Above all....learn to relax. Your productivity is higher when you are relaxed.
Please read the article about 'To learn Quit studying...says NY times' I referred in my previous post.
Hope this helps...
Ramki
Mock tests will help you answer the questions for you. when you prepare/learn for the tests, you do it like an academic researcher but when you take the test do it like you are playing a video game. Making impelling decisions under stress will become your second nature (if you don't have it already!). I don't think there is a cookie cutter formula/boilerplate matrix you can use to make the decision. It's very subjective. The best way to accomplish it is by taking as many test exams as possible and fine tune your decision making. By reviewing the results, you can validate whether the decision to skip a particular question was right.
If it was a wrong decision, ask yourself the following questions.
Why did you choose to skip?
was it an informed decision?
Did you misunderstand the question and skip it?
Was it an emotional decision rather than an intellectual one?
Was it a premature decision on your part to skip?
A few questions, you will realize that you should have skipped but didn't. In those cases ask yourself the above questions with the word 'skip' replaced with 'attempt'.
In other words, train yourself in decision making by iterative test taking. It gets better with practice....practice under identical GMAT conditions, study yourself...you may surprised to know that you have a few latent talents. Soon enough you will be an expert in making this decision. Above all....learn to relax. Your productivity is higher when you are relaxed.
Please read the article about 'To learn Quit studying...says NY times' I referred in my previous post.
Hope this helps...
Ramki
-
thebigkats
- Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts
- Posts: 86
- Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:36 pm
- Thanked: 29 times
- Followed by:2 members
- GMAT Score:710
Hi:
Heartiest Congratulations. Great score and great story. I do wish you all the best in your academic endeavors.
I must admit, you are the first person on these forums whom I can relate to. I have 16 years of industry experience and hence am worried that it may work against me given majority of other applicants who only have 6-10 years.
BTW - I took GMAT today and scored 710. Less than what I expected but enough to keep my esteem high
I also live in bay area and will be happy to have a cup of coffee with you, should you have time
regards,
Heartiest Congratulations. Great score and great story. I do wish you all the best in your academic endeavors.
I must admit, you are the first person on these forums whom I can relate to. I have 16 years of industry experience and hence am worried that it may work against me given majority of other applicants who only have 6-10 years.
BTW - I took GMAT today and scored 710. Less than what I expected but enough to keep my esteem high
I also live in bay area and will be happy to have a cup of coffee with you, should you have time
regards,
-
GMATMadeEasy
- Legendary Member
- Posts: 768
- Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:46 am
- Thanked: 21 times
- Followed by:7 members
@bkw:
PM me if you have any questions while reading the book.
Gold standard.Worth the investment. It is a hard read but do until the end and do revise quick once more and then put main points from each chapter in your notes . It will give you life time learning if you care to know 'why' for everything . But you will still need Manhattan SC for many other rules.I have bought the book "Doing Grammar" https://www.amazon.com/Doing-Grammar-Max ... 0195138406 which I hope will useful for SC. Anyone who read it and can comment?
PM me if you have any questions while reading the book.
