SPECIAL ADVICE NEEDED ON NUMBER OF ATTEMPTS.

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I already mentioned by experience with GMAT in my last post ne question from my side... How many attempts for the paper r generally considered fine enough i mean is there any thing like more then a certain times colleges dnt consider it good and take it more like an obsession then actual worth.

Every body may not end up with a score one desires on a single go for a college. It may sound like a obsession to some but for me it is more like making my dream come true. I know many will say GMAT score is not all tht applications r made of and much important things can make the application strong but U would agree tht GMAT definitely is one of the important things there and with an average profile like mine I really need a good GMAT score to at least be thru with one front on the application.


Please let me know ur views...... Special note to EXPERTS their advice greatly solicited.

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by Tani » Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:46 pm
Generally, three tests is pushing it. Four or five is a danger signal that you are focusing on the wrong things. It also signals that you are having difficulty with the test so that even eventually getting a higher score is not very convincing.
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by makkwende » Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:15 pm
Tani Wolff - Kaplan wrote:Generally, three tests is pushing it. Four or five is a danger signal that you are focusing on the wrong things. It also signals that you are having difficulty with the test so that even eventually getting a higher score is not very convincing.
Hi Tani,
Thanks for the info.I just took my second attempt and still didnt have a good score-510.
Im aiming at a PHD in business.Im tempted to think that many GMAT attempts should reveal the prospective student determination? My second GMAT attempt i didnt send it to schools as i wanted to be sure i was happy with results before sending out.Do the schools still have the possibility of viewing my score?Are there any business PHD programs without a GMAT requirement? Thank you in advance for your answers.

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by Tani » Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:41 am
I am not as familiar with PhD programs, but I do know that many MBA programs are now accepting the GRE. You might try taking a sample GRE online to see if your scores are better there. Then you could check with the schools you are targeting to see whether they accept either test.

If you didn't send your scores anywhere when you took the test, they will not go out. However, if you take the test again or send your scores later, all scores within the last five years will be reported.

Unfortunately, taking the test many times doesn't show dedication, it simply shows that the test was very difficult for you, which is one reason we don't recommend taking it 4 or 5 times.

Business PhD programs are very different from MBA programs. They are not designed for people who want to work in business, but rather for those who want to teach or do research. Be very careful that you know exactly what you want to do with a PhD before you apply. Those programs are extremely hard to get into and you will need to be very specific about why you are pursuing a PhD rather than an MBA.

Good luck,
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by ketan.gmat » Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:31 am
Tani,

I understand what u said but For a profile like mine I am an IT guy from India and we all know the pool of the IT guys applying from India is the largest so there it makes the race much difficult for me. So GMAT stands the undisputed part of the profile that I any how need to master to gain the edge among the others. I aim for a first 10 colleges. What do u wanna say on my condition. My race for the second trial is on. GMAT is not only abt hardwork even after months of hardwork and confidence I lost all the calm on the first 3 questions of my test and later on the test just got me with time.

Please Advice what looks proper to u in my case.

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by Tani » Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:11 am
Simply doing more of the same thing you have done so far will not help. You need a different approach. Have you worked with a tutor? An experienced tutor can often identify something you are doing wrong that can be a breakthrough. You need to work on concepts, not problems. Try going over your practice tests to create an error log. Note the types of problems you have missed and why you missed them -- misread the problem, didn't know a formula, missed subject/verb agreement or parallelism, etc. -- that way you can identify something that you can fix. Fixing a consistent error can increase your performance by leaps and bounds.

Confidence is also key. If you find you are stressed, stop, take a few deep breaths, look away from the screen, consciously relax your neck and shoulders and then go back to the test. Keeping on working when you are stressed will only make things worse.

Good luck
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by makkwende » Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:49 am
Tani Wolff - Kaplan wrote:I am not as familiar with PhD programs, but I do know that many MBA programs are now accepting the GRE. You might try taking a sample GRE online to see if your scores are better there. Then you could check with the schools you are targeting to see whether they accept either test.

If you didn't send your scores anywhere when you took the test, they will not go out. However, if you take the test again or send your scores later, all scores within the last five years will be reported.

Unfortunately, taking the test many times doesn't show dedication, it simply shows that the test was very difficult for you, which is one reason we don't recommend taking it 4 or 5 times.

Business PhD programs are very different from MBA programs. They are not designed for people who want to work in business, but rather for those who want to teach or do research. Be very careful that you know exactly what you want to do with a PhD before you apply. Those programs are extremely hard to get into and you will need to be very specific about why you are pursuing a PhD rather than an MBA.

Good luck,
Hi Tani thank you for your detailed response.I will go ahead and retake the GMAT and hopefully get a better score after which i will decide on the way forward.Reallya appreciate your help.Thank yu

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by gmat_perfect » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:18 pm
ketan.gmat wrote:I already mentioned by experience with GMAT in my last post ne question from my side... How many attempts for the paper r generally considered fine enough i mean is there any thing like more then a certain times colleges dnt consider it good and take it more like an obsession then actual worth.

Every body may not end up with a score one desires on a single go for a college. It may sound like a obsession to some but for me it is more like making my dream come true. I know many will say GMAT score is not all tht applications r made of and much important things can make the application strong but U would agree tht GMAT definitely is one of the important things there and with an average profile like mine I really need a good GMAT score to at least be thru with one front on the application.


Please let me know ur views...... Special note to EXPERTS their advice greatly solicited.
Many men MANY minds.

I have found many guys who have attempted more than 4 times and are in top 20 B.Schools.

I have heard one who is inn Wharton even when she had attempted GMAT 13 times.

My friend is in a PHD program majoring in Finance. He has attempted GMAT 6 times.

When you will have a good GMAT score, you will be in a good school.

Take this as an admission test. If you fail in that 100 times. Who cares?

So, it is immaterial how many times you have attempted GMAT in admission, and it should be.

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by ketan.gmat » Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:10 am
Thanks for the reply gmat_Perfect ur reply has really made my hopes go high but even what I have heard till now 3 is safe hope dnt have to take any more than twice.....

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by lunarpower » Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:41 am
as you might suspect, there's not really going to be a straight yes/no answer to this question; if there were, it would almost certainly not be the topic of such heated discussion on such a constant basis.

in general:
* what is certain is that schools are focused most intensely on your single highest score. in fact, many schools (including stanford, for instance) actually ask students to list only one gmat score on their applications (if i remember correctly, the exact words were "please include the scores from only one examination that you wish us to consider during the application process").
while this is of course not a guarantee of anything -- the dealings in admissions are very shady, to say the least -- it should at least give us a rudimentary idea of where the schools' priorities have been set.

HOWEVER:
* i think tami above has a point, although i think she may be little bit too pessimistic about the overall impact of multiple test administrations. in particular, though, i think we have to use a little bit of common sense about this whole thing.

here's an analogy:
- imagine someone (person #1) who works all the time and makes a good amount of money, but hardly has any time to spend with family, children, etc. and essentially has no hobbies.
- imagine someone else (person #2) who is also hard-working, has achieved a better balance of work life with family and recreational life, but isn't making as much money as he/she would like.
THOUGHT EXPERIMENT:
* what would be your initial reaction if person #1 redoubled his/her efforts to earn even more money, while not putting in any additional effort into other life areas (family etc.)?
* what would be your initial reaction if person #2 redoubled his/her efforts to earn even more money, while not putting in any additional effort into other life areas (family etc.)?
i think you can see what i'm getting at here -- the immediate reaction to person #1 would be something like "wow, this person's priorities are ridiculous and misplaced", while the immediate reaction to person #2 would be something more like "okay, i can see how that person might want to shore up his/her financial life a bit".
ok -- common sense, right...
it's almost certain that the same thing is also going to be true for admissions committees' consideration of applicants: if the GMAT is a weakness, relative to ALL other aspects of your application, then repeated attempts are justified. however, if you have ANY other aspects of your application that could also be considered glaring weaknesses, then too many attempts at the GMAT is going to make the admissions committees start to think that your priorities are lopsided or misplaced.

so ... if you have solid work experience, solid volunteer experience/extracurriculars, solid letters of recommendation, and solid everything else, but your gmat scores are below average for your particular demographic, then go ahead and take the test again.
on the other hand, if you have low-ish gmat scores after taking the test three times and you also have other issues in your application (e.g., you've never had a leadership position at work, and/or your supervisors don't even remember your name, and/or the grand total of your community involvement + volunteer work + any other type of societal investment is zero), then you should probably go get those things taken care of before you turn your attention back to the gmat.

in any case, i think people are looking a little bit too much for hard numbers here -- i think this is really something in which common sense, as well as an intuitive understanding of the importance of priorities and trade-offs, can pretty much give you accurate enough answers to your questions.
also, i don't mean to spoil the party -- but:
if, after considerable thought, you still have no idea how an admissions committee is going to perceive you and/or your application, then ... well, you may want to think twice about a career in management!
remember that, at the end of the day, management is all about understanding "people factors" that are absolutely NOT hard numbers and/or that are functions of a zillion inconsistent, flesh-and-blood variables. thus, ironically, the excessive desire to hunt for formulas and exact answers to questions like this may itself be an indicator that Other Fields Besides Management may be the way to go.

hopefully the above will help.
Last edited by lunarpower on Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by sashish007 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:32 am
Well-explained rationale, Ron!
Thank you
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by aslan » Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:51 am
Ron...why are you so intelligent! :(