Suggestions and Feedback

I'm not satisfied with the book recommendations section of this site.

There needs to be a sticky in the verbal and math sections from people who scored 700 and over giving their opinions on which books are the best.

Not just one person giving their opinion!

Right now I have to search people success stories to see which books they studied with.

Hey thanks for reading my reviews. I understand that you might want some extra info about books. If you think that my opinion is not correct, then let me know in the comments. Also, if you need more help choosing your set of books and do trust my opinion, then you should also leave a comment and I'll answer it.

Regarding the broader issue of having more opinions, we'll discuss that with the team.

DanaJ wrote:Hey thanks for reading my reviews. I understand that you might want some extra info about books. If you think that my opinion is not correct, then let me know in the comments. Also, if you need more help choosing your set of books and do trust my opinion, then you should also leave a comment and I'll answer it.

Regarding the broader issue of having more opinions, we'll discuss that with the team.

"Theres more than one way to skin a cat"

I have no problems with your opinions.

I don't need help choosing books.

Everyone who has scored 700+ deserves a stake in the input of books recommended.
Input that should go further than their beat the gmat success thread.

Dayne,

Check this thread out

https://www.beatthegmat.com/book-review- ... tml#211764

I had the same thought that you did and wanted to do something similar where everyone could review the materials they used. At the time it wasn't viewed as something that would be that helpful, but if more people feel like you, maybe its something worth doing.

osirus0830 wrote:Dayne,

Check this thread out

https://www.beatthegmat.com/book-review- ... tml#211764

I had the same thought that you did and wanted to do something similar where everyone could review the materials they used. At the time it wasn't viewed as something that would be that helpful, but if more people feel like you, maybe its something worth doing.

thanx I have all of the manhattan math books and my confidence in math is growing as I currently study for it

I just don't understand how this forum doesn't allow an easy access for members to give their opinions on books to study for.

If you got to gmatclub.com not only is their a sticky thread for newbies to check out book recommendations, but the book recommendations are open ended in which people are free to give their input and you can vote on the most effective books.

Well DAYNE.. that's why we like suggestions from users like yourself! Can't make changes until someone suggests something right? Do you have any input on books you've used that you'd like to share?

Dayne I certainly understand your position. However, here is my personal view on the issue (it might not be shared by other members of the staff/moderators). Please do not believe that I am aggressively supporting my own position, these are just my thoughts. So you basically have two options regarding the system of book recommendations.

1. Allow members to post their experiences with the books, rate the books and discuss them amongst each other.
The strong point of this system is that it does allow for discussion among the forum members and the star ratings are not just one person's view of the book. I will certainly agree that this option is probably more interactive that the second option.

However, there is a major drawback to this, a drawback that you may be familiar with if you've ever had the chance to order something online from amazon.com or another similar site. The issue I'm talking about is false reports on books written by the marketing people from XYZ Company that provides GMAT materials. This is something that we ourselves have tried to prevent on our forum, false marketing by posing as a customer.

Another problem is that some really good people write uninformed reviews about products on the market. They have not had the chance to experience anything else except the books they've used (usually no more than 5 or 6 in a market of tens or hundreds of books) so they simply do not have the resources to make an adequate comparison.

2. Have someone (or a specific group of people) post unbiased reviews about the books and make recommendations
This is for the moment our option. I have written the reviews in the books section myself and Eric has always been kind enough to edit them. Keep in mind the following:
- comments are definitely allowed and by all means encouraged. It's certainly not devised as a thread, but you will get replies asap
- I have personally been exposed to 40+ of the most popular books in the industry, including several different editions of the same product. This basically allows me to provide an informed opinion based on what's available out there
- I am not affiliated with any company in the GMAT prep world, so I have no incentive to misrepresent the facts
- I am a self studier like most people who are shopping for books, so I understand your position and try to provide meaningful advice
- (and this is just a fact - I am not bragging) I scored a 770 on the GMAT with self study and I suppose that most people would be looking for advice from high scorers rather than someone who's scored low. And maybe that's not even as important as knowing that the person who makes the recommendation or selects the star rating is someone you can trust and whose opinion is valuable to you

Of course, I certainly get it why this is not an ideal system. The main issue here is that you're indeed getting an opinion from DanaJ only and not 20-30 other people. However, as I've said, I have never ever deleted any comments from our members. They are also encouraged to start threads or search for keywords on particular books.

OK so now for the conclusion: from your posts up until now I sense a certain tension. It may just be me... I do not want it to seem like I'm not open to feedback (of course, I and the team all are), it's just my personal perception of the matter. Eric and the rest of the community will decide what's best and I obviously encourage you to present your own feelings about the points listed above. But I, as a user of this forum, will not be convinced by arguments such as "because some other site does it", but by arguments that highlight the potential benefits to our members.

DanaJ wrote: - (and this is just a fact - I am not bragging) I scored a 770 on the GMAT with self study and I suppose that most people would be looking for advice from high scorers rather than someone who's scored low.

I don't think that you should have included this. Your point about the fake accounts from rival prep companies more than sufficed for the site's position on leaving the book recs the way it is. This statement, in addition to the implication about the importance of getting advice from someone not affiliated with a prep company, implies that you are the only regular poster that can give people advice regarding self study. The vast majority of the people that score in the 99th percentile do not stick around the site. If the goal of the site is to be more interactive, statements like these could have negative consequences. I know that I attempt to help a lot of people in the strategy forum, but now after reading this statement, this perspective/attitude is going to be in the back of my mind whenever I respond to anyone. The statement comes off like people who scored in the 99th percentile are the only people that should give advice on self study and/or are the only people's opinions that future test-takers on this site should value.

osirus0830 wrote:

DanaJ wrote: - (and this is just a fact - I am not bragging) I scored a 770 on the GMAT with self study and I suppose that most people would be looking for advice from high scorers rather than someone who's scored low.

I don't think that you should have included this. Your point about the fake accounts from rival prep companies more than sufficed for the site's position on leaving the book recs the way it is. This statement, in addition to the implication about the importance of getting advice from someone not affiliated with a prep company, implies that you are the only regular poster that can give people advice regarding self study. The vast majority of the people that score in the 99th percentile do not stick around the site. If the goal of the site is to be more interactive, statements like these could have negative consequences. I know that I attempt to help a lot of people in the strategy forum, but now after reading this statement, this perspective/attitude is going to be in the back of my mind whenever I respond to anyone. The statement comes off like people who scored in the 99th percentile are the only people that should give advice on self study and/or are the only people's opinions that future test-takers on this site should value.

I shaked my head when read that, the arrogance on that boy/girl.

And not all schools require that you have a 770 are above.....

DanaJ wrote:Dayne I certainly understand your position. However, here is my personal view on the issue (it might not be shared by other members of the staff/moderators). Please do not believe that I am aggressively supporting my own position, these are just my thoughts. So you basically have two options regarding the system of book recommendations.

1. Allow members to post their experiences with the books, rate the books and discuss them amongst each other.
The strong point of this system is that it does allow for discussion among the forum members and the star ratings are not just one person's view of the book. I will certainly agree that this option is probably more interactive that the second option.

However, there is a major drawback to this, a drawback that you may be familiar with if you've ever had the chance to order something online from amazon.com or another similar site. The issue I'm talking about is false reports on books written by the marketing people from XYZ Company that provides GMAT materials. This is something that we ourselves have tried to prevent on our forum, false marketing by posing as a customer.

Another problem is that some really good people write uninformed reviews about products on the market. They have not had the chance to experience anything else except the books they've used (usually no more than 5 or 6 in a market of tens or hundreds of books) so they simply do not have the resources to make an adequate comparison.

2. Have someone (or a specific group of people) post unbiased reviews about the books and make recommendations
This is for the moment our option. I have written the reviews in the books section myself and Eric has always been kind enough to edit them. Keep in mind the following:
- comments are definitely allowed and by all means encouraged. It's certainly not devised as a thread, but you will get replies asap
- I have personally been exposed to 40+ of the most popular books in the industry, including several different editions of the same product. This basically allows me to provide an informed opinion based on what's available out there
- I am not affiliated with any company in the GMAT prep world, so I have no incentive to misrepresent the facts
- I am a self studier like most people who are shopping for books, so I understand your position and try to provide meaningful advice
- (and this is just a fact - I am not bragging) I scored a 770 on the GMAT with self study and I suppose that most people would be looking for advice from high scorers rather than someone who's scored low. And maybe that's not even as important as knowing that the person who makes the recommendation or selects the star rating is someone you can trust and whose opinion is valuable to you

Of course, I certainly get it why this is not an ideal system. The main issue here is that you're indeed getting an opinion from DanaJ only and not 20-30 other people. However, as I've said, I have never ever deleted any comments from our members. They are also encouraged to start threads or search for keywords on particular books.

OK so now for the conclusion: from your posts up until now I sense a certain tension. It may just be me... I do not want it to seem like I'm not open to feedback (of course, I and the team all are), it's just my personal perception of the matter. Eric and the rest of the community will decide what's best and I obviously encourage you to present your own feelings about the points listed above. But I, as a user of this forum, will not be convinced by arguments such as "because some other site does it", but by arguments that highlight the potential benefits to our members.

I understand what your saying, however i think we can have a happy medium on this issue by providing an unofficial book recommendation forum or thread.

Meaning keep the official book recommendations as it is.

Create an unofficial book recommendations forum or sticky threads throughout the forum for all successful members to give their input on which books should be used. Provide a disclaimer that this isn't from the forum itself and their could be people posing from guide companies with their own biased self interest.

@Dayne and @osirus0830: you took it out of context and forgot to consider the other phrase I posted there: And maybe that's not even as important as knowing that the person who makes the recommendation or selects the star rating is someone you can trust and whose opinion is valuable to you

So:
- "high scorers" does not imply a 99% score
- having a high score is not as important as being able to present an informed opinion, i.e. the person who receives the recommendation knows you can be trusted

osirus0830: I have seen your activity on the forums and it is of course of high quality. You have been a very nice person around here and you should not stop/change your activity on the forum based on what (I believe) is a misinterpretation of what I said. Your advice is surely greatly appreciated by forum members. That being said, there's nothing in my statements to imply that I am the only one capable of offering advice: I did not say "DanaJ", I used terms such as high scorers or person who makes the recommendation.
And the other thing is that my post above is just MY opinion, it's not necessarily shared by anyone else of the moderators.

Dayne: you also forgot to mention my other part of the statement: and this is just a fact - I am not bragging, in which I make it clear that posting my 770 is not because of "arrogance", it's because of wishing to make a point.
However, don't think for a moment that I do not agree with your last post, in which you definitely present your opinions in a clearer and more relatable way. Your opinion and osirus0830's have been understood and will be debated amongst ourselves.