usage of "that "

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usage of "that "

by punitkaur » Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:34 am
A higher interest rate is only one of the factors, albeit an important one, that keeps the housing market from spiraling out of control, like it did earlier in the decade.

a) that keeps the housing market from spiraling out of control, like it did earlier in the decade.
b) that keep the housing market from spiraling out of control, as it did earlier in the decade
c) that keeps the housing market from spiraling out of control, as it did earlier in the decade
d) that keep the housing market from spiraling out of control, like earlier in the decade
e) that keep the housing market from spiraling out of control, like it did earlier in the decade


I am confused about the usage of "that "as a modifier. I read somewhere that "that" should modify the subject of the preceding cllause. I also read that it should modify the preceding noun. so I was not sure between B & C

OA is B

Somebody please explain me the usage of that and how to know when to use which rule?

Thanks

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by capnx » Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:36 am
"that" can function as many things: pronoun, conjunction, adj, adv...

in the question "that" functions as a relative pronoun to introduce a clause. "that" is referring back to "factors", which is plural, so B is correct in using "keep" instead of "keeps"

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by punitkaur » Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:06 am
Hi capnx,

how can u say it is referring back to factors. Isn't the subject of the clause "higher interst rate". So I chose "keeps".

I am often confused in such sentences.

For example I found another one -

Biologists believe that they have found one of the substances that tell individual genes both when to become active and when to remain quiescent in the earliest phases of an embryo's development.

(A) tell individual genes both when to become active and when to remain
(B) tell individual genes both at which time they should become active and should remain
(C) tells individual genes both when to become active and when to remain
(D) tells individual genes both when to activate and when to
(E) tell an individual gene both about when it should become active and when it should remain

Here also the Oa is A and I chose C

From both OA's I have understood that we need to choose plural, but I am not convinced as the subject of both th eabove sentences is singular, so how do you know what "that" is modifying?

Also if anyone can give examples where the verb after that is singular.

Basically the wuestion is when to use singular and when to use plural with "that"

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by raj_aabr » Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:47 am
Hi punitkaur,
I guess that has nothing to do with singular or plural.

in the second example, if we change to "a substance" then tell becomes tells. You still need "that" in the sentence.
Biologists believe that they have found a substances that tells.

In the examples above, i think, it is the factors that keep the housing market in control, interest rates is one of them. The "substances" that tell the genes and not "one".

Raj

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by capnx » Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:43 am
punitkaur wrote:Hi capnx,

how can u say it is referring back to factors. Isn't the subject of the clause "higher interst rate". So I chose "keeps".

I am often confused in such sentences.

For example I found another one -

Biologists believe that they have found one of the substances that tell individual genes both when to become active and when to remain quiescent in the earliest phases of an embryo's development.

(A) tell individual genes both when to become active and when to remain
(B) tell individual genes both at which time they should become active and should remain
(C) tells individual genes both when to become active and when to remain
(D) tells individual genes both when to activate and when to
(E) tell an individual gene both about when it should become active and when it should remain

Here also the Oa is A and I chose C

From both OA's I have understood that we need to choose plural, but I am not convinced as the subject of both th eabove sentences is singular, so how do you know what "that" is modifying?

Also if anyone can give examples where the verb after that is singular.

Basically the wuestion is when to use singular and when to use plural with "that"
a relative pronoun doesn't always have to refer back to the subject. a pronoun refers back to the nearest noun or pronoun.

I think you're having difficulty with the structure: "one of the factors/substances/nouns" + "that", and whether "that" is singular or plural.

the best tip I can give you is you have to read the meaning out.

Biologists have found (one of the substances) that tell...
Biologists - subj
have found - pred
one of the substances - object

nouns in the sentence: biologists, one, and substances.

now the hard part, does "that" refer back to "biologists", "substances" or "one"?

if it's "biologists", "who" should be used to refer back to people.

if "that" refers back to "one", wouldn't the sentence be better said with:
Biologists have found (a substances) that tell...

if "that" refers back to "substances", it means of all the substances "that tell", Biologists have only found one of them.

same with the interest rate factor.
interest rate is only (one of the factors) that keep the housing market...

if you reverse the structure: One of the factors that keep the housing market... is the interest rate.
so, out of all the factors that keep the housing market... interest rate is only one of them. "that" has to refer back to the plural "factors"

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by loveusonu » Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:51 pm
it should be plural. Here is the link where Ron has explained when to you singular and when to use plural: https://www.beatthegmat.com/one-of-the-t40356.html
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by punitkaur » Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:55 pm
Thanks!!!

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by tanviet » Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:59 am
in the construction "one of ...that clause", logic of meaning permit only 2 cases

first case is

THE ONLY one of things that IS. this pen is the only of the pens that is white--that clause must refer to "the only pen". We can not have other logic.

second cases is (3 sentences have nearly the same meaning)

ONLY ONE of things that ARE

JUST ONE of things that ARE

ONE of things that ARE.

this pen is only pen of pens that are white---logic only permit that "that were..."refer to "pens"

Besides, of course,pattern "one of the men is my friends" is simple to understand.

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by Shawshank » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:57 am
IMO -- C..

I dont agree that OA -- B
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by sanjaysmart » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:27 am
A higher interest rate is only one of the factors, albeit an important one, that keeps the housing market from spiraling out of control, like it did earlier in the decade.

a) that keeps the housing market from spiraling out of control, like it did earlier in the decade.
b) that keep the housing market from spiraling out of control, as it did earlier in the decade
c) that keeps the housing market from spiraling out of control, as it did earlier in the decade
d) that keep the housing market from spiraling out of control, like earlier in the decade
e) that keep the housing market from spiraling out of control, like it did earlier in the decade

This is really a simple question.

a. is a subject verb disagreement...here's why: 'one of the factors' is being modified by the adjectival clause 'that keeps....here the adjectival clause is modifying 'factors' (which factors? the ones that 'keep). The rule is that when the adjectival clause modifies something and the adjectival clause does not have its own suvbject, the verb of the adjectival must agree with the noun that it modifies.
b. is the best answer because the subject verb disagreement has been rectified and 'it' refers clearly back to 'rate'- the ehad nun of the noun phrase subject.
c. repeats the subject verb disagreement
d. 'like' is bad diction (as VS like)
e. same as 'd'

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by Giorgio » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:52 am
Hi I think the Of Prepositional Phrase tells you that it should be plural . As in the case of SANAM pronouns.

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by sanjaysmart » Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:25 pm
No that's not correct. Here's why: the prepositional phrase is often the post modifier in the noun phrase (ex: the man IN THE MIRROR) and the verb takes its number from the head noun, not the post modifier.