Please help me end my misery

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Please help me end my misery

by LoveTheGMAT » Mon May 24, 2010 9:23 am
Hello everyone,
I am in a miserable situation. I have written my GMAT twice now.

First time: studied 2 weeks and just reviewed basics and wanted to get the "feel" of the test. Score: 520 (Q35 V27). I didn't expect to do super studying 2 weeks.

Second time: Put my FULL heart into it. Studied for 3 months, went through every Manhattan GMAT guide. I was scoring 600+ on Kaplan and Manhattan CATs. And generally I was feeling much better as I had gone through and understood strongest material in the industry (Manhattan's guides). I just felt I knew so much more and I knew the concepts, not just tips or shortcuts. Like some books I used told me to Pick Numbers for Odd/Even, while using Manhattan's NP, I learned to master the content. I could do tough Odd/Even, +/- questions in 1 minute. Anyways, after all the work, I felt good but my score? 540 (Q41 V23). I was shocked!! Days following test I felt it was a bad dream and I have yet to write the GMAT. Horrible feeling!

The worst thing was that AFTER studying so much and I spent good amount of time on Verbal, my Verbal score went down from when I didn't study that much? How ridiculous is that? Now, I wasn't hoping a 700, I would be okay with 620 (I know some people here start higher than 620). I did have trouble with SC, but I was good in CR and RC.

Maybe I am not a good test taker? I have done 80+ in University while holding a part time job and volunteer work, so its not like I'm stupid, lol. Maybe I just get nervous when it comes down to ONE TEST that will matter a lot in admissions.

Well now the deadline of some of the schools I applied to is gone (or will be soon) - but I do have a shot at 1 school. And I need to get 620 for that school (though 650 would be very good!)

So, I need help - some major major help!

This is the list of material I used:
1. Manhattan GMAT guides (All 8 of them)
2. OG 12, 1st edition OG-V and OG-Q
3. PowerScore CR (though I used Manhattan's more and found it more helpful)
4. Kaplan QuizBank (helpful in creating quizzes in specific area. So I would do 37 NP in 75 mins, then 37 CR in 75 mins). But this has expired now.

I also bought online version OG Companion from Manhattan. My test was coming close, so I only used it for 3-4 days, found it very helpful! (You can tell I'm a Manhattan fan)

My new plan:
I plan to write the test in mid-July. So I have 6-7 weeks. I am a recent graduate and I don't have a job, so I have all the time in the world right now and hoping to spend whatever it takes on the GMAT (though I have spent endless hours!)

I am planning to follow Manhattan's GMAT's self-guided syllabus (https://manhattangmat.com/Bigfiles/Cours ... _05_15.pdf). Should I get their regular Self-guided Prep program? I already have the material, so it should be cheaper for me. I am not sure if I can afford Prep Plus right now.

I know this is a 10 week plan, but I am hoping to get it done in 6 weeks as I have gone through most of the material and have a ton of time.

I am going to spend 65% of my time on Verbal this time and 35% on Quant. I still want to improve my quant, hopefully from 41 to 45, but Verbal is what I need to really work on! My SC was bad, I am hoping to go through MG SC several times and doing problems everyday.

Can someone give me insight on my new plan?

Please help!!

Thanks

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by money9111 » Mon May 24, 2010 9:29 am
LoveTheGMAT wrote: My new plan:
I plan to write the test in mid-July. So I have 6-7 weeks. I am a recent graduate and I don't have a job, so I have all the time in the world right now and hoping to spend whatever it takes on the GMAT (though I have spent endless hours!)
My suggestion is to not tell yourself you have 6-7 weeks... you should take the exam when you're scoring in your desired range on 2/3 consecutive practice tests. Trust me I can speak from experience...
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by Osirus@VeritasPrep » Mon May 24, 2010 9:41 am
One thing that I'm trying and it has helped me with motivation. Rather than set a real date for the GMAT. I scheduled a date for my next GMAT prep test. I am treating that as if it is the real thing, so I'm trying to have everything done by then that I want to get through. This way. when I see the score from the GMAT prep test, I will know how close I am to the real thing.
https://www.beatthegmat.com/the-retake-o ... 51414.html

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by LoveTheGMAT » Mon May 24, 2010 10:21 am
Thanks guys.
I was also wondering which tests I should used now? I have written 4 Manhattan tests, so I have 2 of those left. But I have written GMATPrep 1 and 2 twice each. I can get 800Score tests, but I am not sure how they are.

I also found that Kaplan and Manhattan's verbal was slightly different than GMATPrep. I scored 32-33 on Verbal of Kaplan and Manhattan, but only 28 on GMATPrep 2 and 23 on the real thing.

But overall, I found Manhattan's tests were good and gave detailed analysis. I am planning to reset them once done and re-do them - that will be more for stamina and test taking practice than the actual scoring

Any other tests I can use to find my score range?

Thanks

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by Stacey Koprince » Tue May 25, 2010 9:16 am
Received a PM asking me to reply.

Can you give us some more data? Were you taking practice tests under full official conditions? If not, how did you deviate from official conditions? What were your practice test scores, including quant and verbal subscores? Do you have any timing problems?

Depending upon how much of a drop you experienced from your practice test scores, you may want to do the analysis described in the below article. This article is generally appropriate for people whose scores dropped 80 points or more on test day.

https://www.beatthegmat.com/a/2009/10/26 ... went-wrong

The syllabus is a good start. You should also read this article:
https://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2010/02/ ... study-plan

It's important to figure out WHY you're struggling so much with certain things or WHY your score dropped so much on test day (if that is what happened). If you don't know why, it's a lot harder to figure out what to do about it.

At this point, I wouldn't worry about getting more practice tests or more practice questions. From my count, you did more than 8 tests in 3 months. That's WAY too many. CAT exams are really good for (a) figuring out where you're scoring right now, (b) practicing stamina, and (c) analyzing your strengths and weaknesses. The actual act of just taking the exam is NOT so useful for improving. It's what you do with the test results / between tests that helps you to improve.

I'm a little worried from your mention of the practice tests that you may be emphasizing quantity too much over quality of study. It's really important to study in the right way; if you're not learning what you need to learn from your study and practice, then continuing to do new problems or take new practice tests isn't going to help very much.

Take a look at these articles; do you do this kind of analysis when you're studying? If not, you need to start doing this. I tell my students to do fewer problems but REALLY analyze them - that's a lot more helpful than plowing through tons of problems.
https://www.beatthegmat.com/a/2009/10/09 ... ce-problem

https://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2010/03/ ... c-question
https://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2010/01/ ... r-question
https://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2010/02/ ... e-question
https://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2010/01/ ... g-question
https://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2010/03/ ... y-question
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by LoveTheGMAT » Tue May 25, 2010 12:58 pm
Thanks for your response, Stacey.

Yes I wrote the tests under strict time conditions. Maybe 2-3 in the beginning were without essays, but last 7-8 were with both essays, 6 minute breaks (to take into account the signing-in and out). I consumed same snacks and drinks before the test and in-between the breaks. I wanted to make sure I am practicing under exact conditions.

This was my timing strategy:
Quant: When on #6, have 64 minutes left. When on #11, have 52 minutes left. When on #21, have 33 minutes left. When on #31, have 14 minutes left. I was able to reach that consistently and finish tests on time.

Verbal: When on #15, have 50 minutes. When on #29, have 25 minutes. And finish off by the end. So I aim 25 minutes for every 14 questions. Sometimes it goes up and down depending on when the passages come. But overall, I have been ok.

These are my results:
1. Jan 4th GMATPrep 1: 540 (Q37 V26)
2. Jan 11th Manhattan 1: 460 (Q29 V25)
3. Jan 31st Kaplan 1: 540 (Q33 V24)
4. Mar 18th Kaplan 2: 600 (Q40 V29)
5. Apr 3rd Kaplan 3: 600 (Q 40 V28)
6. Apr 9th GMATPrep 1: 620 (Q42 V31)
7. Apr 14th Manhattan 2: 640 (Q44 V33)
8. Apr 29th Manhattan 3 560 (Q39 V29)
9. May 3rd Manhattan 4 640 (Q44 V33)
10. May 9th GMATPrep 2 580 (Q42 V28)
11. May 15th GMATPrep 2 620 (Q46 V30)

So, I wrote 11 CATs. Is that too much? At some point, I felt I didn't write enough CATs in last few weeks and maybe my stamina went down. I have seen some people who write 1 CAT/day in the last week.

I talked to one of the schools and they might give me another chance to write the GMAT. They haven't said the date they want me to write, but it could be in 30 days. So I am going to prepare like I have 4 weeks.

I am hoping to follow Manhattan's schedule and review the books. I have read some of them 2-3 times. But my main focus would be to re-do ALL OG Problems. After reviewing the problems. I am hoping to re-do the ones I get wrong or the ones I take too long on 1 more time after going through all OG problems. And review those several times.

I am hoping to do maybe 4 CATs. Manhattan 5, 6 and GMATPrep 1 and 2.

I went over the problems I got wrong, and attempted them again. But this time I'll go over them 2-3 times and re-do 2 times.

Thanks for the links, I'll make sure to go through them. I think I have read some of them before, but I'll re-read again.

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by Stacey Koprince » Wed May 26, 2010 7:34 am
Please don't make the mistake of thinking that quantity is more important than quality (of study). You mentioned that some people will take an exam a day for the last week; that is a big mistake, in my opinion.

Learning and doing are two different activities. What you do when you take the test is not the same thing as what you do when you learn how to get better. In a two hour study session, I will only do problems for about 30 to 40 minutes of that time; the rest of the time is reserved for review and analysis of the problems. Spend at least twice as much time reviewing and analyzing as doing problems in the first place. Most of your learning comes from the analysis.

By contrast, when I'm taking a test, I'm not trying to learn anything at all. I'm just trying to remember and use everything that I already learned before I started the test. (I do hope to learn from the test AFTER I'm done taking it... but that learning occurs when I'm reviewing the test, not when I'm actually taking it.)

Don't limit your review to the ones that you got wrong. You can learn just as much from the problems you got right. Those articles about how to analyze problems will help you to know what you should analyze even when you get the problem right.

I think you're right to study as though you're only going to have 4 weeks; if they give you more time, that will just be a bonus.
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by LoveTheGMAT » Wed May 26, 2010 8:09 am
Thanks Stacey
I am only going to do OG problems and analyze them deeply. Manhattan's OGC is helpful in learning different methods - I wasn't able to use it as extensively earlier as it was just launched. But this time, I hope to go through problems thoroughly.

As for the CATs, I meant in the last week to take them to build stamina to sit down for 4 hours and do the test. The day before, I just relaxed and reviewed some small things, nothing major. I plan to do the same this time.

Thanks again for everything :)

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by Stacey Koprince » Thu May 27, 2010 11:47 am
I meant in the last week to take them to build stamina to sit down for 4 hours and do the test.
Still no. Not a good idea. :)

This is the equivalent of saying that, to build stamina, I should run a practice marathon every day during the week before my real marathon (except for one day of rest the day before). What's going to happen?

The same thing will happen here - you'll tire yourself out!

I tell my students the LATEST they're allowed to take a practice test is 5 days before the real thing. I also tell them they're not allowed to take a practice test more frequently than once a week - though I COULD be okay with twice in one week, several days apart, IF the student is having serous stamina issues and the real thing is coming up. But I'd still adhere to the not-within-the-last-four-days rule. And never two days in a row - you're not even getting the benefit of building stamina on the second one. You're just tiring your brain out.
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by M811 » Sat May 29, 2010 11:16 am
Stacey Koprince wrote:Received a PM asking me to reply.

Can you give us some more data? Were you taking practice tests under full official conditions? If not, how did you deviate from official conditions? What were your practice test scores, including quant and verbal subscores? Do you have any timing problems?

Depending upon how much of a drop you experienced from your practice test scores, you may want to do the analysis described in the below article. This article is generally appropriate for people whose scores dropped 80 points or more on test day.

https://www.beatthegmat.com/a/2009/10/26 ... went-wrong

The syllabus is a good start. You should also read this article:
https://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2010/02/ ... study-plan

It's important to figure out WHY you're struggling so much with certain things or WHY your score dropped so much on test day (if that is what happened). If you don't know why, it's a lot harder to figure out what to do about it.

At this point, I wouldn't worry about getting more practice tests or more practice questions. From my count, you did more than 8 tests in 3 months. That's WAY too many. CAT exams are really good for (a) figuring out where you're scoring right now, (b) practicing stamina, and (c) analyzing your strengths and weaknesses. The actual act of just taking the exam is NOT so useful for improving. It's what you do with the test results / between tests that helps you to improve.

I'm a little worried from your mention of the practice tests that you may be emphasizing quantity too much over quality of study. It's really important to study in the right way; if you're not learning what you need to learn from your study and practice, then continuing to do new problems or take new practice tests isn't going to help very much.

Take a look at these articles; do you do this kind of analysis when you're studying? If not, you need to start doing this. I tell my students to do fewer problems but REALLY analyze them - that's a lot more helpful than plowing through tons of problems.
https://www.beatthegmat.com/a/2009/10/09 ... ce-problem

https://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2010/03/ ... c-question
https://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2010/01/ ... r-question
https://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2010/02/ ... e-question
https://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2010/01/ ... g-question
https://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2010/03/ ... y-question

Hi Stacey,

My condition is similar to LoveTheGmat. I have given GMAT twice managed to get a decent score. At first attempt, I scored 440(Quant 25, verbal 17). I had put a lot of effort for two month and then against gave GMAT and score 640( Quant 45, verbal 25). I fail to score good in Verbal. My dream is to get admission in ISB/UCLA/Stern/UCLA. With the 640 score , I am not even eligible to get an admission. I aim to score 700+. I lack in all the areas of Verbal. Can you please help and devise a study plan for verbal. Is there any way to score higher in Verbal?

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by Stacey Koprince » Mon May 31, 2010 12:34 pm
Wow, M811, that's a really great score improvement on your second test!

I would suggest that you start a new post; we should leave the thread for LoveTheGMAT in case s/he has further things to discuss in future. (Each person should have their own "strategy" post.)

After you've posted the post, send a link to the post to me via PM. I'll follow the link and we'll start to discuss your case.

In your post, give us some more data. If you've taken a recent MGMAT practice test, use this article to analyze your results and tell us (in your post) what you find:
https://www.beatthegmat.com/a/2009/09/23 ... tice-tests

If you haven't taken an MGMAT test recently, either take one and then do the analysis or attempt to do the analysis described in the above article with a practice test from another company. (You may not be able to do everything, depending upon the data that you're given from the other test.)

You should also read this article to start gaining ideas about how to develop a study plan:
https://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2010/02/ ... study-plan
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