Aerugo, also known as verdigris, is the green "bloom" visible on many copper items, and is produced, like iron rust, over the course of time by the exposure of the metal to the oxygen in the atmosphere.
a) visible on many copper items, and is produced
b) that is visible on many copper items, and which produces
c) visible on many copper items, and produces
d) that is visible on many copper items, and that produces
e) which is visible on many copper items, and which is produced
my doubt: considering that "which" can be accepted without a comma, can option E be correct? is "which" in option E referring to "green "bloom" OR "Aerugo". i get a feeling that "which" can refer to "Aerugo"
doubt SC
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"which" cannot appear without a preceding comma, when "which" is used as a classical "relative pronoun" (except obviously when "which" appears as part of a prepositional phrase).aditya8062 wrote:Aerugo, also known as verdigris, is the green "bloom" visible on many copper items, and is produced, like iron rust, over the course of time by the exposure of the metal to the oxygen in the atmosphere.
a) visible on many copper items, and is produced
b) that is visible on many copper items, and which produces
c) visible on many copper items, and produces
d) that is visible on many copper items, and that produces
e) which is visible on many copper items, and which is produced
my doubt: considering that "which" can be accepted without a comma, can option E be correct? is "which" in option E referring to "green "bloom" OR "Aerugo". i get a feeling that "which" can refer to "Aerugo"
Nevertheless, here, it doesn't matter because of the structure of the sentence:
Aerugo is the green "bloom" which is visible on many copper items..
Because of "is", the structure of the sentence is:
X IS Y, which is visible on many copper items...
So, X=Y. Hence, whether "which" refers to X or to Y, it's the same thing.
"Technically" speaking however, "which" would refer to green "bloom".
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this rule has been flouted by gmac. GMAC has stopped making this distinction now"which" cannot appear without a preceding comma, when "which" is used as a classical "relative pronoun" (except obviously when "which" appears as part of a prepositional phrase).
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Thanks for this. Wasn't aware of this:(.aditya8062 wrote:this rule has been flouted by gmac. GMAC has stopped making this distinction now"which" cannot appear without a preceding comma, when "which" is used as a classical "relative pronoun" (except obviously when "which" appears as part of a prepositional phrase).
Can you kindly highlight an official example in this regard that will make things clearer for me.
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Hi aditya8062,
In answer E, neither appearance of the word "which" is necessary - they're both redundant, since we already know the subject of the sentence.
GMAT assassins aren't born, they're made,
Rich
In answer E, neither appearance of the word "which" is necessary - they're both redundant, since we already know the subject of the sentence.
GMAT assassins aren't born, they're made,
Rich
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In answer E, neither appearance of the word "which" is necessary - they're both redundant, since we already know the subject of the sentence.
So you mean that the sentence would have been ok without "which"?
without "which" the sentence would appear as: Aerugo, also known as verdigris, is the green "bloom" is visible on many copper items, and is produced
------------->this is a wrong sentence
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Hi! I believe what Rich meant was that the "which structure" is not needed. So I believe the sentence that Rich was suggesting is:aditya8062 wrote: So you mean that the sentence would have been ok without "which"?
without "which" the sentence would appear as: Aerugo, also known as verdigris, is the green "bloom" is visible on many copper items, and is produced
------------->this is a wrong sentence
Aerugo, also known as verdigris, is the green "bloom" visible on many copper items, and produced....
Also, I had requested in my earlier post if you could let me know of any official example were "which" used as a classical relative pronoun does not have a comma preceding it. If you could let me know, it will help me clarify my concepts.
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oh missed your post. read question 10 OG 12 . also recently a friend of mine took gmat and he reported that he saw question in which all options were with "which" without comma . i had asked this thing to mitch and he said we can accept "which" without "comma". also he selected an option (another question) in which "which" was used without comma !! all other options were too wrongAlso, I had requested in my earlier post if you could let me know of any official example were "which" used as a classical relative pronoun does not have a comma preceding it. If you could let me know, it will help me clarify my concepts.
now days GMAC has been making question to flout so called proclaimed rules (such as this one) which people normally use to eliminate options !!
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hmm you people have been eliminating E but the point is that meaning parallelism of E is much better than A
the concept of parallelism is NOT RANDOM . we always need independent ideas to be parallel but then those independent ideas must be such that ---that we can represent those ideas as 1 AND 2 OR as A and B .apply this concept and u will see that meaning parallelism of E is much better than A( i am assuming that we need to forget about this "which" rule for a time being as GMAC itself has been flouting this rule in real exam)
the concept of parallelism is NOT RANDOM . we always need independent ideas to be parallel but then those independent ideas must be such that ---that we can represent those ideas as 1 AND 2 OR as A and B .apply this concept and u will see that meaning parallelism of E is much better than A( i am assuming that we need to forget about this "which" rule for a time being as GMAC itself has been flouting this rule in real exam)
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Hi! Question 10 OG 12 uses "that" (and not "which") in the right option. In fact, "that" (an "essential" modifier) should always be without comma. So, perhaps this does not give us the correct picture.aditya8062 wrote: oh missed your post. read question 10 OG 12
Well, as I mentioned earlier, it might be that the options used "which" as a part of "prepositional phrase", in which case there would obviously be no comma. For example: This is the bucket in which water was filled.aditya8062 wrote: . also recently a friend of mine took gmat and he reported that he saw question in which all options were with "which" without comma
Can you please (if at all you have time, else don't bother) dig out that question. If it's an official question, it would settle things for me:).aditya8062 wrote: . i had asked this thing to mitch and he said we can accept "which" without "comma". also he selected an option (another question) in which "which" was used without comma !! all other options were too wrong
Not at all! This is not a "self-proclaimed rule". In question 12, OG13 GMAT does hint at this:aditya8062 wrote: now days GMAC has been making question to flout so called proclaimed rules (such as this one) which people normally use to eliminate options !!
Some writers follow the convention that which can only be used for nonrestrictive clauses, but insistence on this rule is controversial.
Since GMAT admits to this being controversial, I was under the impression (and still continue to be frankly) that GMAT would not have a correct option where a comma is missing before "which".
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Hi! what I (and I believe Rich also) is proposing is:aditya8062 wrote:hmm you people have been eliminating E but the point is that meaning parallelism of E is much better than A
the concept of parallelism is NOT RANDOM . we always need independent ideas to be parallel but then those independent ideas must be such that ---that we can represent those ideas as 1 AND 2 OR as A and B .apply this concept and u will see that meaning parallelism of E is much better than A( i am assuming that we need to forget about this "which" rule for a time being as GMAC itself has been flouting this rule in real exam)
the green "bloom" visible .... and produced ...
What A is saying is:
the green "bloom" visible .... and is produced ...
A is definitely incorrect.
So, basically, I am proposing option F:).
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your interpretation is not correctWhat A is saying is:
the green "bloom" visible .... and is produced ...
A says: Aerugo, also known as verdigris, is the green "bloom" visible on many copper items, and is produced, like iron rust, over the course of time by the exposure of the metal to the oxygen in the atmosphere. ----> by default parallelism is between the bold portion (and that is why i am saying that this default parallelism is not correct)
this is where GMAT is playing around. same is true for the usage of "being" . the fact is that gmat has been changing lot of stuff and has been playing around especially with so called rules that are famous in these forums. and NO my friend did not see that exception (in fact i and he are aware of that exception !!)Not at all! This is not a "self-proclaimed rule". In question 12, OG13 GMAT does hint at this:
Some writers follow the convention that which can only be used for nonrestrictive clauses, but insistence on this rule is controversial.
Since GMAT admits to this being controversial, I was under the impression (and still continue to be frankly) that GMAT would not have a correct option where a comma is missing before "which".
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Oh yes you are right, I missed that. But now I am confused why you say that E is better than A. I read your post on parallelism, but am not clear on how E is more parallel than A.aditya8062 wrote: your interpretation is not correct
Not sure if I can say anything more than I have already said. Frankly if "all" the answer choices had "which" without a comma, then its a moot point. I quoted OG earlier to demonstrate that this is not "so called rules that are famous in these forums".this is where GMAT is playing around. same is true for the usage of "being" . the fact is that gmat has been changing lot of stuff and has been playing around especially with so called rules that are famous in these forums. and NO my friend did not see that exception (in fact i and he are aware of that exception !!)
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i never said that E is more parallel than A . i said that E has a better parallelism than A. there is a difference between "better parallelism" and "more parallelism" you just cannot make any ideas parallel . this is what i meant when i said that parallelism is not random .Oh yes you are right, I missed that. But now I am confused why you say that E is better than A. I read your post on parallelism, but am not clear on how E is more parallel than A.
the reason E has better parallelism than A is that E firstly defines something and then then gives 2 properties of that thing in parallel.
A, on the other hand, makes the "defining" and "property" as parallel !! (not good)