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## Though he had - MGMAT SC

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mehravikas GMAT Titan
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Though he had - MGMAT SC Sun Aug 23, 2009 6:00 pm
Elapsed Time: 00:00
• Lap #[LAPCOUNT] ([LAPTIME])

e. Having achieved

OA: A
Source: MGMAT Practice Exams

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Sun Aug 23, 2009 7:16 pm
there's a little discussion here:
http://gmatclub.com/forum/howard-stern-mgmat-82346.html

He had had success. past perfet (1st had, helping verb, indicating perfect tense; 2nd had, real verb, to possess, to hold, to own...)
it sounds awkward because it's not used this way often, but there's no real grammar mistake in A

siddharth rastogi Rising GMAT Star
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Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:03 am
But i think c should be the answer
as, howard must have opted for terestrial brodcasting first and then got success in broadcasting his controversial programe...............

so, the sequese should be ( opted)in pastperfect and ( success) in simple past...........

mehravikas GMAT Titan
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Mon Aug 24, 2009 1:19 am
Thanks but that raises more doubts

Why do we need "had" for simple past?

According to me the examples of simple past and past perfect would be:

1. In 1976, 60% of families were couples with children. - Simple past
2. By 1996, this had fallen to 51%. - Past perfect

Do we really need "By 1996, this had had fallen to 51%."???? for past perfect?

capnx wrote:
there's a little discussion here:
http://gmatclub.com/forum/howard-stern-mgmat-82346.html

He had had success. past perfet (1st had, helping verb, indicating perfect tense; 2nd had, real verb, to possess, to hold, to own...)
it sounds awkward because it's not used this way often, but there's no real grammar mistake in A

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lunarpower GMAT Instructor
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Tue Aug 25, 2009 3:50 am
Quote:
1. In 1976, 60% of families were couples with children. - Simple past
2. By 1996, this had fallen to 51%. - Past perfect
this is correct.

--

i feel your pain here, because you're confusing two completely different uses of the word "had".

one use of "had" is the PAST TENSE of the infinitive "TO HAVE". (let's call this "had1")
this is like other past tenses, such as "was", "chose", "ran", "threw".

another is the PAST PARTICIPLE of the infinitive "TO HAVE". (let's call this "had2")
this is like other past participles, such as "been", "chosen", "run", "thrown".

the other is as a HELPING VERB that appears in the PAST PERFECT. (let's call this "had3")

here's how "to have" is conjugated:
present: he has the flu.

analogy: some other random verb, such as "to choose"
present: he chooses the steak entree.
past: he chose the steak entree.

the difficulty here lies in not confusing the different "had"s.

hope that helps

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mehravikas GMAT Titan
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Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:39 am

but it would correct to say - he had had a steak entree

Phewwwwwww..

[quote="lunarpower"]
Quote:
--

i feel your pain here, because you're confusing two completely different uses of the word "had".

one use of "had" is the PAST TENSE of the infinitive "TO HAVE". (let's call this "had1")
this is like other past tenses, such as "was", "chose", "ran", "threw".

another is the PAST PARTICIPLE of the infinitive "TO HAVE". (let's call this "had2")
this is like other past participles, such as "been", "chosen", "run", "thrown".

the other is as a HELPING VERB that appears in the PAST PERFECT. (let's call this "had3")

here's how "to have" is conjugated:
present: he has the flu.

analogy: some other random verb, such as "to choose"
present: he chooses the steak entree.
past: he chose the steak entree.

the difficulty here lies in not confusing the different "had"s.

hope that helps

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lunarpower GMAT Instructor
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Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:42 am
mehravikas wrote:

but it would correct to say - he had had a steak entree
all correct.

you can't have had3 + had2 + chosen, because then you have 2 past participles in a row. that's not allowed.

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Ron is a Director of Curriculum Development at Manhattan GMAT. He has been teaching various standardized tests for almost 20 years.

He wears white after Labor Day, gets 55% of his calories from protein, and takes standardized tests for fun.

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mehravikas GMAT Titan
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Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:53 am
Thanks heaps Ron.

Would you be able to give an official prep or MGMAT CAT problem which has an example of had had (apart from the one posted in this forum). I have come across "had had" problem for the first time. Just want to go through 1-2 more problems. It's difficult to find such sentence correction questions.

lunarpower wrote:
mehravikas wrote:

but it would correct to say - he had had a steak entree
all correct.

you can't have had3 + had2 + chosen, because then you have 2 past participles in a row. that's not allowed.

siddharth rastogi Rising GMAT Star
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Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:26 am
THANKS a lot RON,
for such a wonderful explanation.

Can u please give the answer of the following question, as i think the OA- A is wrong, because in my opinion the action 1( opted out of terrestrial broadcasting........) is the previous one and

so, ans should be C

e. Having achieved

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lunarpower GMAT Instructor
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Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:45 pm
siddharth rastogi wrote:
THANKS a lot RON,
for such a wonderful explanation.

Can u please give the answer of the following question, as i think the OA- A is wrong, because in my opinion the action 1( opted out of terrestrial broadcasting........) is the previous one and

nope. action 2 comes first, and its termination is precisely at the moment of action 1. this is the perfect setup for the past perfect.

action 1 is "opted out of terrestrial broadcasting".

you probably just didn't notice the highlighted part of #2. if you notice that, it should be clear why this must precede #1.

_________________
Ron is a Director of Curriculum Development at Manhattan GMAT. He has been teaching various standardized tests for almost 20 years.

He wears white after Labor Day, gets 55% of his calories from protein, and takes standardized tests for fun.

Pueden hacerle preguntas a Ron o en inglés o en español.

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lunarpower GMAT Instructor
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Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:52 pm
mehravikas wrote:
Thanks heaps Ron.

Would you be able to give an official prep or MGMAT CAT problem which has an example of had had (apart from the one posted in this forum). I have come across "had had" problem for the first time. Just want to go through 1-2 more problems. It's difficult to find such sentence correction questions.
there aren't any others in our tests, as far as i know. we try not to overdo things; every question that repeats a topic is a question that precludes the appearance of another topic.

in any case:

if this is too confusing, then try replacing "had" (not the helping verb, but the participle or past tense) with some synonym.
depending on the context, this could be "owned", "achieved", "experienced", etc.

here "had" is being used in the context of success, so "achieved" is probably the best substitution.
so, in this problem, choice (a) would be "had achieved", (b) would be "has achieved", (c) just "achieved", etc. ironically, it would render choices (d) and (e) identical, throwing them both into doubt.
(note that (d) and (e) are perfectly correct grammatically; they just don't make sense from a logical standpoint, as they seem to present a concordance where there should be a contrast.)

this will probably do wonders as far as making the point more clear.

--

on a lighter note:

_________________
Ron is a Director of Curriculum Development at Manhattan GMAT. He has been teaching various standardized tests for almost 20 years.

He wears white after Labor Day, gets 55% of his calories from protein, and takes standardized tests for fun.

Pueden hacerle preguntas a Ron o en inglés o en español.

If you send Ron a private message, please allow 1-2 weeks for a response.

Free Manhattan GMAT online events - The first class of every online Manhattan GMAT course is free. Classes start every week.
mehravikas GMAT Titan
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Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:28 pm
Wow
lunarpower wrote:
mehravikas wrote:
Thanks heaps Ron.

Would you be able to give an official prep or MGMAT CAT problem which has an example of had had (apart from the one posted in this forum). I have come across "had had" problem for the first time. Just want to go through 1-2 more problems. It's difficult to find such sentence correction questions.
there aren't any others in our tests, as far as i know. we try not to overdo things; every question that repeats a topic is a question that precludes the appearance of another topic.

in any case:

if this is too confusing, then try replacing "had" (not the helping verb, but the participle or past tense) with some synonym.
depending on the context, this could be "owned", "achieved", "experienced", etc.

here "had" is being used in the context of success, so "achieved" is probably the best substitution.
so, in this problem, choice (a) would be "had achieved", (b) would be "has achieved", (c) just "achieved", etc. ironically, it would render choices (d) and (e) identical, throwing them both into doubt.
(note that (d) and (e) are perfectly correct grammatically; they just don't make sense from a logical standpoint, as they seem to present a concordance where there should be a contrast.)

this will probably do wonders as far as making the point more clear.

--

on a lighter note:

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Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:46 pm
mehravikas wrote:

e. Having achieved

OA: A
Source: MGMAT Practice Exams
had+verb is past perfect and its used to identify order of two past events. in this sentence, hw's success in terrestial broadcasting is in the past as is his opting to do satellite. so we need to order their sequence through the past perfect. "had" by itself is simple past and that would be relevant if hw's opting was an event that had not ended.

you got this man!

siddharth rastogi Rising GMAT Star
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Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:06 am
RON,thanks again

e. Having achieved

RON, though is used to contrast one event say 1 to the other say 2

But in the above sentence I am not able to get the real contrast.

Why ( THOUGH IS USED)contrast is showed to say that he opted again terrestrial brodcasting ?

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lunarpower GMAT Instructor
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Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:11 am
siddharth rastogi wrote:
RON,thanks again

e. Having achieved

RON, though is used to contrast one event say 1 to the other say 2

But in the above sentence I am not able to get the real contrast.

Why ( THOUGH IS USED)contrast is showed to say that he opted again terrestrial brodcasting ?
the second clause says that he "OPTED OUT". this mean that he QUIT terrestrial broadcasting.

given that he had previously enjoyed success, this is indeed a contrast.

_________________
Ron is a Director of Curriculum Development at Manhattan GMAT. He has been teaching various standardized tests for almost 20 years.

He wears white after Labor Day, gets 55% of his calories from protein, and takes standardized tests for fun.

Pueden hacerle preguntas a Ron o en inglés o en español.

If you send Ron a private message, please allow 1-2 weeks for a response.

Free Manhattan GMAT online events - The first class of every online Manhattan GMAT course is free. Classes start every week.

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