The Application Process

MaximusMB wrote:Hi all,
Hi @MaximusHB- I just want to thank you for this very insightful comparison- and as a Kellogg grad myself and someone who knows the admissions side from my time on adcom at UNC Kenan-Flager, I think you are correct in generally saying that US business schools have a bias for international candidates who speak English clearly and who would be attractive to the mostly US employers that recruit from US MBA programs. I enjoyed your thoughtful comparison and think it adds to the knowledge on this site! So Kudos to you and hopefully this will add to the general knowledge for candidates considering between US and International programs- I think it important to note there isn't an overall right or wrong- but all this knowledge is helpful when you think about what will be most helpful to your long term career goals.
It has been some time since I screened this forum up and down to figure out where I wanted to apply for an MBA.

As I am a recent graduate from IESE Business School ('16), and completed an exchange at Kellogg, I feel I have accumulated a lot of comparative information that might serve future applicants out there. Please also note that some of these comparisons include insights from students from LBS, IE and Esade, who I studied with at Kellogg.

Based on my experience, spending 3 months at Kellogg, there are many differences between going to a European B-School vs a US-School.

First of the culture at each school is highly affected by the country culture that each school is part of. In the American culture I would argue some of the main components are: strong drive and desire for high technical skills and relentless performance, together with a system where social status is important and where work often takes a very important place in the daily life.

In Europe it is a bit different, although the continent has more differences within itself than the US has. E.g. in Spain a strong personal connection and collectivity, together with a high quality of life, is more important (as with Latam-cultures). A good friend from IESE, that lived for many years in Chicago, once told me that "In the US you will get quantity, while in Europe you will get quality". I feel that clearly reflects how I feel of the two cultures, with the pros and cons that comes with it. Moreover, there is certainly a big difference between the cultures of the UK, France and Spain, in which UK probably is closer to the US, and thus the same for LBS and OxBridge.

Hence, based on my experience with Kellogg vs. IESE you will likely get more of a professional push at the former, while the latter you will feel more inclusive and filled with people that have more time to you as a person. According to a study I heard about at Kellogg the average student would have a certain level of interaction with about 40 co-students. At IESE that is likely much higher. This is likely more of a US vs EU pattern in general. Also, it was surprising to me to see that many of the connections I added at Kellogg where not connections themselves in between (at IESE most of us are all connected for potential future references).

The culture:

It should also go without saying that Kellogg is like most other US-Schools, precisely a US-School. It has a student body where the majority are Americans or "foreign students" with US-visa. Also foreign students with a prior study record in the US is common (I seldom hear foreign students that did not have a clear American accent). This means just what I said above, that the US-culture is absolutely nr. 1 in presence at campus. I met people from Brazil, Africa and other parts of the world that, because of this, behaved quite differently (more passive and grouped with other fellow countrymen) because it is harder to get space when you are dealing with such a dominant culture.

At IESE (and what I heard from colleagues at other EU-schools) the dynamic is very different. Yes, part of the faculty is still from the country where the school is located, and so is most of the staff at campus, but the student body is certainly not. And this therefore does not allow for the local culture to decide the culture at school. At IESE they need to have 15 or 20% of the student body to be Spanish because of national educational regulations, but this is not much bigger than for example the size of the student body coming from Brazil, India or the US.

I guess the recent ranking from Poets & Quants perfectly exemplifies this here: https://poetsandquants.com/2016/03/09/in ... rograms/3/

I also feel this comparison becomes complete when including one of my favourite quotes from Alan Watts: "You don't understand the basic assumptions of your own culture if your own culture is the only culture you know". In Europe most of the students have lived for several years in another culture, or just have a more thorough understanding of different cultures, while in the US many of the students have just had trips of months to max a year or two abroad. E.g. how many Americans do you know that speak more than one language (fluently - in a professional environment)? Ask the same question to incoming students at US-Schools or in general among European Schools and you will be surprised.

Recruitment

This is where Kellogg for me stood out. As a school with a long tradition of producing strong candidates for various industries, the career service was impressive and had a solid group of staff (that can enjoy the support of a strong brand). Also, considering that the US is a completely different recruitment market for MBAs compared to Europe (the consulting industry in the US has revenues of about $33Bn, while the next on the list is Germany with a consulting industry of about $3Bn), the number of positions popping up at career service was more than double of IESE when you adjust for the number of students in each year. On thing that surprised me though was the regionality of these positions. While positions from all over the world pops up here and there at IESE (although still with a higher frequence within Europe), about 90% of the jobs that pops up at Kellogg's career service website are from within the US. Hence, if you want to work in Europe after the MBA you better reconsider when applying to US-Schools (unless you want to work within consulting, where hiring is done globally, and where Kellogg has a superb club environment to get prepared for interviews). Also, the alumni network outside of the US is not that different among these schools. E.g. I looked specifically at reaching out to alumni from both schools in the UAE, and there were no big difference in numbers. At LBS and INSEAD this is likely nr. 1 in the world, as they are not primarily rooted in one country.

The academics

This is where IESE stands out, both compared to Kellogg and also in general (based on feedback from a number of people). The level of integration and intensity in class, and the interaction between the students are surely second to none. I seldom had any professional discussions at all during my exchange at Kellogg (I even asked one of the professors to challenge the class more to make it more vibrant and interesting), while at IESE that is what the MBA is all about. To challenge your peer, in a most professional way, to see who has the best argument for a given business problem. This is also where the cultural difference comes in: In the US, there is a clearer social hierarchy between professors and students (I feel almost like in Germany). Although most are friendly and responsive, they do not necessarily expose themselves 100% to you. At IESE I had several evenings speaking with professors on the lawn for more than an hour, and everyone I had in class knew my background and would remember that I used to work a little bit as a financial journalist, but that I preferably wanted to break into impact investing and so on. Overall, the closeliness and presence between professors and students are quite different between the two schools.

Overall it should not be any doubt which schools have the strongest brand: The US educational system is still the intellectual empire of today, and its hard to avoid reading books at schools that are not written by someone from there. And, the professional level is still higher (I would argue), both when it comes to technical skills in finance and maybe in solving business cases. But there are also many other important variables that should be at place when choosing the right school for an MBA.

Feel free to pose questions related to this.

All the best,