Experts, please comment!

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Experts, please comment!

by gmat_perfect » Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:02 am
Whereas lines of competition are clearly defined in the more established industries, in the Internet industry they are blurred and indistinct, as companies that compete one day may be partners the next.

A. Whereas lines of competition are clearly defined in the more established industries, in the Internet industry they are blurred and indistinct, as companies that compete
B. Although the lines of competition are clearly defined in industries that are more established, they are blurred and indistinct in the Internet industry, as competing companies
C. The lines of competition are clearly defined in the more established industries, unlike the Internet where they are blurred and indistinct, as companies that compete
D. Unlike more established industries, where the lines of competition are clearly defined, they are burred and indistinct in the Internet industry, as companies that compete
E. Unlike more established industries, with clearly defined lines of competition, those of the Internet industry are blurred and indistinct, as competing companies

OA: A

CDE are out for wrong comparison. Now we are between A and B.

In the option B, "industries that are more established" can be replaced by concise expression "more established industries" (as it is in A), but using "more established industries" may create another problem since "more established industries" have the following two meanings:

1. Industries that are more established.------> More established.
2. More industries that are established.------More industries.

See the sentences:

(I) A rolling stone gathers no moss.

(II) A stone that is rolling gathers no moss.
==> here, the first sentence is correct.

If we apply the same logic in the options A and B, in the option A "companies that compete" should be replaced by "competing companies".

Answer should be B.

What do you think?

Please explain your reasoning.

Thanks.

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by Geva@EconomistGMAT » Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:38 am
Note that it's not just "in more established industries" - there's an article "the" before the noun phrase (in the more established industries), which refers to the noun "industries", leaving the "more established" as adjectives.
If the article weren't there, then your alternative interpretation of "in more industries" would've been possible, but still unlikely. The rule in noun phrases is that each modifier (adjective/adverb) modifies the next word following it. If you want to indicate that two adjectives both modify the same noun at the end of the phrase, you need to separate the adjectives with commas, indicating that both refer to the noun rather than the next word:

e.g. He is an old, tired man

both "old" and "tired" modify the noun "man", and thus are separated by a comma to indicate.

Technically, the rule above calls for your interpretation of "more industries" to require such a separation:
"In more, established industries."

Which is awkward as $@#$@, and would probably be better split into "more industries that are established".
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by aippingw » Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:25 am
I would go with B too. However, something is bothering me. "they" in "they are blurred and indistinct", could refer either to the industries or to the lines of competition, and therefore will make the sentence confusing. Am I right or it is just my interpretation?

Thanks

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by gmat_perfect » Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:53 am
Geva@MasterGMAT wrote:Note that it's not just "in more established industries" - there's an article "the" before the noun phrase (in the more established industries), which refers to the noun "industries", leaving the "more established" as adjectives.
If the article weren't there, then your alternative interpretation of "in more industries" would've been possible, but still unlikely. The rule in noun phrases is that each modifier (adjective/adverb) modifies the next word following it. If you want to indicate that two adjectives both modify the same noun at the end of the phrase, you need to separate the adjectives with commas, indicating that both refer to the noun rather than the next word:

e.g. He is an old, tired man

both "old" and "tired" modify the noun "man", and thus are separated by a comma to indicate.

Technically, the rule above calls for your interpretation of "more industries" to require such a separation:
"In more, established industries."

Which is awkward as $@#$@, and would probably be better split into "more industries that are established".
Yes, I got your point.

Would you please explain in favor of option B?
Thanks.

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by nicboy » Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:04 pm
Geva@MasterGMAT wrote:Note that it's not just "in more established industries" - there's an article "the" before the noun phrase (in the more established industries), which refers to the noun "industries", leaving the "more established" as adjectives.
If the article weren't there, then your alternative interpretation of "in more industries" would've been possible, but still unlikely. The rule in noun phrases is that each modifier (adjective/adverb) modifies the next word following it. If you want to indicate that two adjectives both modify the same noun at the end of the phrase, you need to separate the adjectives with commas, indicating that both refer to the noun rather than the next word:

e.g. He is an old, tired man

both "old" and "tired" modify the noun "man", and thus are separated by a comma to indicate.

Technically, the rule above calls for your interpretation of "more industries" to require such a separation:
"In more, established industries."

Which is awkward as $@#$@, and would probably be better split into "more industries that are established".


Could you be more clear on the answer, A or B, because some say B and others go for A, in your message above, it looks like you are going for A.

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by Geva@EconomistGMAT » Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:07 am
Could you be more clear on the answer, A or B, because some say B and others go for A, in your message above, it looks like you are going for A.
sorry for not being clearer. As gmat_perfect's original post states, the OA is A, which I agree with. I find no problems with A, and two major points that make B inferior to A:

1) B unnecessarily uses the less concise "in industries that are more established", which my previous post shows is not needed, as A's "in the more established industries" is perfectly fine and conveys the same idea in a more concise manner.

2) The ending is problematic, though I admit I'm having trouble putting my finger on exactly why "competing companies one day" doesn't work. It may be due to the fact that "one day" in B acts as an adjective modifying the noun "companies", which it can't really do:
For starters, adjectives must appear before the noun they modify, not after.
Even if we were to place "one day" before the noun "companies" (as in "one day companies"), it still doesn't work: when a noun (in this case, "day") acts as an adjective describing the following noun, the description is one of "type": the first noun needs to answer the question "what kind of companies?" (think School teacher, sports jacket, police car). however, "one day" is not really a description of type here, so one day can't modify companies - at least not in the sense we want here. A solves the problem by having "one day" correctly act as an adverb, modifying the verb "compete".
To correct B, I would place "one day" before "companies, and add a possessive, so the relation between the two nouns is correct: "one day's competing companies may be next day's partners".
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by nicboy » Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:17 pm
Geva@MasterGMAT wrote:
Could you be more clear on the answer, A or B, because some say B and others go for A, in your message above, it looks like you are going for A.
sorry for not being clearer. As gmat_perfect's original post states, the OA is A, which I agree with. I find no problems with A, and two major points that make B inferior to A:

1) B unnecessarily uses the less concise "in industries that are more established", which my previous post shows is not needed, as A's "in the more established industries" is perfectly fine and conveys the same idea in a more concise manner.

2) The ending is problematic, though I admit I'm having trouble putting my finger on exactly why "competing companies one day" doesn't work. It may be due to the fact that "one day" in B acts as an adjective modifying the noun "companies", which it can't really do:
For starters, adjectives must appear before the noun they modify, not after.
Even if we were to place "one day" before the noun "companies" (as in "one day companies"), it still doesn't work: when a noun (in this case, "day") acts as an adjective describing the following noun, the description is one of "type": the first noun needs to answer the question "what kind of companies?" (think School teacher, sports jacket, police car). however, "one day" is not really a description of type here, so one day can't modify companies - at least not in the sense we want here. A solves the problem by having "one day" correctly act as an adverb, modifying the verb "compete".
To correct B, I would place "one day" before "companies, and add a possessive, so the relation between the two nouns is correct: "one day's competing companies may be next day's partners".
Thank you so much for clarifying this question, what troubles me is that according many study sites, many are in favor of B because they think that in A, the parallelism is an issue since the"lines of competition" and the " in computer industry", and that's reason most of them prefer B instead of A. Please comments on this parallelism issue. Thanks

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by Geva@EconomistGMAT » Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:43 pm
nicboy wrote: Thank you so much for clarifying this question, what troubles me is that according many study sites, many are in favor of B because they think that in A, the parallelism is an issue since the"lines of competition" and the " in computer industry", and that's reason most of them prefer B instead of A. Please comments on this parallelism issue. Thanks
Whatever the problem is, I'm not seeing it. As long as each clause includes the preposition "in", parallelism is maintained: the sentence is trying to say that "although something is true IN the more established industries, it is not true IN the internet industry". The actual order is slightly different, but the conjunction "whereas" is used to connect two independent clauses, which don't necessarily need to follow the exact same pattern.
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by nicboy » Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:39 pm
Geva@MasterGMAT wrote:
nicboy wrote: Thank you so much for clarifying this question, what troubles me is that according many study sites, many are in favor of B because they think that in A, the parallelism is an issue since the"lines of competition" and the " in computer industry", and that's reason most of them prefer B instead of A. Please comments on this parallelism issue. Thanks
Whatever the problem is, I'm not seeing it. As long as each clause includes the preposition "in", parallelism is maintained: the sentence is trying to say that "although something is true IN the more established industries, it is not true IN the internet industry". The actual order is slightly different, but the conjunction "whereas" is used to connect two independent clauses, which don't necessarily need to follow the exact same pattern.
Thank you for the answer, so as long as the A says "in the internet industry they.............", here they is still parallel with the lines of competition, and in the internet industry is parallel to most other industries.

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by EducationAisle » Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:25 am
B is not parallel. B reads:

.....competing companies one day may be partners the next....

Think about it this way: Competing companies are a type of companies. So, effectively, B reads:

... companies one day may be partners the next....

But that does not make sense, does it? The sentence should have been:

. companies competing one day may be partners the next....

Even logically thinking, B says that competing companies can be partners. But this is not logical, since the companies can either be competing or be partners.

While GMAT can perhaps give some leeway if there is no better option available, but in this case, A clearly has a clearer meaning.
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by bnsl89 » Sun Oct 04, 2015 4:14 am
i am concerned about the pronoun "they"
in A i might point to lines or industries
whereas in B we know that for sentences that include although the pronoun after comma directly points to the subject ie lines
please correct if mistaken.