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Hello,

I have taken the GMAT 4 times now and am in desperate need of some sound advice. I need to either take the GMAT again ASAP or get on my applications ASAP.

Basic Info:
-28 now, 29 in February
-White
-Male

Academics:
-State school in the Southwest
-3.41 GPA in business with a major in finance
-GMAT: 600 (Q35V37)
-Financial licenses including series 65 and an expired series 7 and 63
-CFA designation

Work Experience:
-2 years with Charles Schwab in the state I grew up
-4.5 years with boutique investment management firm in Southern California that manages $1.2 billion where I am the youngest portfolio manager. Was promoted twice and now manage a $7.5mm investment product (like a mutual fund). Transformed firm's firm's fixed income offering and built a bond desk - now serve as fixed income expert for the firm. Write quarterly investment commentary newsletter every other quarter that goes out to 600+ clients.

Extracurriculars:
-I am extremely active with the local CFA Society here in LA. I am a board member, a position I received after being elected, and I co-chair the fixed income group, and a couple other groups.
-I am on multiple finance/investment-related committees of a large school for the developmentally disabled.
-I run a surf group with 1200+ members and am responsible for continually raising funds and paying for dues, events, etc.
-I was the sole teacher of a weekly financial literacy class at a homeless shelter for a year
-I tutored underprivileged kids weekly through my former church for a year

Goals:
I want to work solely in fixed income (as opposed to stocks and fixed income) and would love to do it in an institutional capacity (i.e., managing large accounts for pensions, endowments, corporations, etc.) I am also interested in working for a fixed income fund which could be at a hedge fund, private equity shop, etc. This may mean starting in ibanking. I'm also somewhat open to transaction/restructuring consulting if it could lead me to a fixed income fund. Lastly, I want to stay in California long-term.

I was originally targeting a 700 GMAT and full-time programs such as Booth, Kellogg, Ross, Anderson, Marshall, etc., but now I don't know what to do. I actually just took the GMAT this week and also in October, and I was scoring much higher on practice tests. I got a 740, a 700 and two 680s, albeit the 740 had a lot of repeat questions. Additionally, my worst quant sub-score was a 40 with the best a 46. Since this setback, I started looking at part-time programs and am pleasantly surprised by those at Marshall and Anderson. Given my goal to likely stay in asset management, perhaps a part-time program makes sense, but this wouldn't be good to enter ibanking/consulting. I still fear that I'm not competitive, though, even for Anderson's part-time program, because of my wretched GMAT score. However, I wonder if my CFA and finance undergrad can make up for my low quant sub-score, considering that's really what killed my score. The number of 'next step' options is overwhelming, but here's what I came up with:

1) Apply to Anderson's and Marshall's part-time programs in late Jan/mid-Feb and apply to one or two slightly easier to get into full-time programs (maybe McCombs and possibly Ross too) by early Jan
2) Use the next month to study for the GMAT again and retake it before the Anderson/Marshall part-time deadlines
3) Do number 2 but with the GRE
4) Take the next two months to retake the GMAT and only apply to full-time programs in round 3

Other things to note: I have studied for the GMAT for over 1000 hours, off and on (mainly on) since 2011. I'm also getting older and my all-in compensation next year will be about $100k, so the opportunity cost of full-time programs suggests I should only leave my job for a great school.

Any thoughts and advice are certainly welcome and appreciated! Thank you in advance.

4allthegold

I have a different suggestion:

• 1. Retake the GMAT a 5th time at the next available date (after the mandatory month wait), but do not use the time to study. You have scored much higher in practice exams, so maybe you just need to (a) get lucky with the reading comprehension passage or (b) not put so much pressure on yourself as to psych yourself out.
  2. Use the time to prep your applications for the Jan round.
  3. (Optional) Take a practice GRE test to see if that format better suits you.

What do you think?

FYI - Your existing 600 GMAT score should be competitive at USC Marshall (https://www.marshall.usc.edu/mbapm/admissions/profile).
Good luck,

I think that is not a bad idea Michael. I appreciate your feedback. This has got me thinking more about a retake. Thanks a lot! Anyone else agree that a retake is in order?

Good luck whichever path you choose!!

Thank you Michael.

Jon, thank you as well. It is a tough one indeed! The 740 was a repeat, but I did get a 680 (Q47V37) on a new test and a 700 (Q46V40) on one with very few repeats questions. While I know repeat tests can skew things, I don't think they can skew things by 80-100 points, plus like I said, I had good scores on non-repeat practice tests. So why did I get a 600? I did feel nervous, and I did feel that I made some dumb mistakes. With that said, though, I retook the test last week for my fourth attempt, thinking I'd do fine but was slapped in the face with a 580 (Q35V36) (breakdown is an estimate since I canceled the score afterward). On this last test, I honestly don't know what went wrong. I felt like I did fine. So now I'm down to apply to McCombs Round 2 with my 600 or take the GMAT in early Jan and plan for a McCombs Round 3 app with a hopefully higher score. Any additional insight would be much appreciated. Thanks Jon!

Ryan

The difference between applying to McCombs round 2 and round 3 is significant. However, applying with a 600 GMAT greatly diminishes your chances. If you are able to retake the test before the 2nd round deadline, I would recommend you do so. There is only upside and no downside.

Good luck!!!!

Michael,

Thanks for your additional insight. I thought long and hard about a retake after you mentioned it the other day. However, I feel that without knowing what went wrong, I can't confidently say that I'll get a lot higher of a score. The downside to me would be an application that is of poor quality because my attention would be focused, at least partly, on the GMAT. If I were not to study at all for it, I feel it's 50/50 that I'd see any increase, and the downside for that is that I just blew what should be my final attempt. I say this based off the perception that it should be taken 4-5 times max. As such, I'm tempted to apply to McCombs and likely Anderson FEMBA and retake it if I'm waitlisted or dinged. Thank you for your guidance though, and feel free to let me know if you think I'm insane. haha

I do not think you are crazy; I think you have a difficult decision.

- Applying in Round 3 versus Round 2 hurts your chances.
- Your odds of getting accepted by McCombs or Anderson FEMBA with a 600 are slim (if you are a diversity candidate that is different; note I said slim but not none as I can give you anecdotal evidence of successful non-diversity candidates to top 15 schools with sub-600 GMAT scores).
- Submitting higher scores after you are waitlisted might or might not be as good as submitting higher scores with your application (i.e. once there is not an outright acceptance things become more uncertain)
- Your chances of improving your GMAT score without studying are not great.
- Your chances of improving your GMAT score with studying might be greater but could hurt your application preparation.

So, you could apply with a 600 and not be accepted when theoretically had you just taken the exam again you would have scored higher and been accepted. Or you could retake the exam, not improve, and had you used your time on preparing a quality application, you would have succeeded on slim odds.

So, in summary, I respect either path you take because each one carries uncertainty.

Good luck in whichever path you choose!!!

Thank you Michael. You explained the dilemma quite well and I agree with the points you made. It is certainly a difficult decision, but I'll have to make do with the scenario I am faced with. Thank you for all your help. I will keep your services in mind should I decide to pursue a professional consultant.

Ryan

Definitely. If you go with the scenario of delaying the GMAT, take the GMAT as soon as possible after the deadline. Then send the scores in which might or might not be used.

Good luck!!!!

Michael, I do plan to go with the scenario of delaying the GMAT. I didn't think much about retaking and sending the scores in afterward, but that's a great idea if the timing could work. However, if I do the app for both McCombs and Anderson FEMBA, I'll be sending in the McCombs app on the deadline of 1/6 and then focusing on the Anderson FEMBA app and sending that in on the deadline of 1/28. That said, I may not be fully prepared to take the GMAT for another 6-8 weeks after 1/28. Would that be too late for McCombs and/or Anderson do you think? Also, do you think it'd be good to book the date for say, mid-to-late March and mention that in my applications? I really appreciate all your awesome guidance! Pretty sure those are my last questions!

Ryan

It just depends. I have anecdotal evidence with clients (over the past decade) of situations going both ways.

(1) A client applies to Wharton Full-Time with a 680, retakes the GMAT after the deadline, sent in the scores, gets an email back the scores will be included in the file and gets accepted.

(2) I had another client who applied to Wharton EMBA with a 640, was waitlisted, and retook the GMAT afterwards getting a 680. When a spot did not become available, he was offered deferred admission for the following year.

Mentioning it in the application could go both ways. (1) You could increase the odds you are waitlisted as the schools wait for the exam (which is good if you would have been outright dinged and bad if you would have been outright accepted).

Good Luck!!!!

For what this is worth, I was helping a kid with the SAT, and she was doing ok. Then we just went over some psychological stuff and basically her total score went up about 200 points in three hours and she broke 700 average per section on the actual test.

So what's the point here?

The point is that it may not take that much time to raise your score 40 to 80 points, IF you figure out what is going on.

Michael, that's very helpful info (again)! Thanks.

Marty, that's encouraging. Thank you as well. I'll certainly have to do more soul searching/research.

Ryan