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Anon
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:43 am    Post subject: Consumers in California seeking personal loans have fewer Reply with quote

Consumers in California seeking personal loans have fewer banks to turn to than do consumers elsewhere in the United States. This shortage of competition among banks explains why interest rates on personal loans in California are higher than in any other region of the United States.
Which of the following, if true, most substantially weakens the conclusion above?
(A) Because of the comparatively high wages they must pay to attract qualified workers, California banks charge depositors more than banks elsewhere do for many of the services they offer.
(B) Personal loans are riskier than other types of loans, such as home mortgage loans, that banks make.
(C) Since bank deposits in California are covered by the same type of insurance that guarantees bank deposits in other parts of the United States, they are no less secure than deposits elsewhere.
(D) The proportion of consumers who default on their personal loans is lower in California than in any other region of the United States.
(E) Interest rates paid by California banks to depositors are lower than those paid by banks in other parts of the United States because in California there is less competition to attract depositors.


OA -A


My question is..isnt D correct too...

if people dont default...banks cant charge them higher and make more profits...

Please help
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lunarpower
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:44 am    Post subject: Re: Consumers in California seeking personal loans have fewe Reply with quote

Anon wrote:
Consumers in California seeking personal loans have fewer banks to turn to than do consumers elsewhere in the United States. This shortage of competition among banks explains why interest rates on personal loans in California are higher than in any other region of the United States.
Which of the following, if true, most substantially weakens the conclusion above?
(A) Because of the comparatively high wages they must pay to attract qualified workers, California banks charge depositors more than banks elsewhere do for many of the services they offer.
(B) Personal loans are riskier than other types of loans, such as home mortgage loans, that banks make.
(C) Since bank deposits in California are covered by the same type of insurance that guarantees bank deposits in other parts of the United States, they are no less secure than deposits elsewhere.
(D) The proportion of consumers who default on their personal loans is lower in California than in any other region of the United States.
(E) Interest rates paid by California banks to depositors are lower than those paid by banks in other parts of the United States because in California there is less competition to attract depositors.


OA -A


My question is..isnt D correct too...

if people dont default...banks cant charge them higher and make more profits...

Please help



no, no, that's not the way these questions work. it appears that you're challenging the factual statement that interest rates in CA are higher than those in other areas of the country. you can't do that; if the passage gives you a FACT, you have to take it as a FACT.

the crux of the passage's argument is that the shortage of competition explains the higher interest rates. you're not allowed to question the existence of higher interest rates; those higher interest rates, de facto, exist.
you're supposed to question the validity of the competition shortage as the rationale for those higher interest rates. in other words, you should choose an answer choice that supplies an alternate explanation for the existence of higher interest rates. this is what choice (a) does: the higher wages paid to the banks' employees are a valid alternative explanation for the higher interest rates passed on to the consumers.

you can't question FACTS! you have to question LINES OF REASONING!!

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a doubt with answer choice A. It states - "Because of the comparatively high wages they must pay to attract qualified workers, California banks charge depositors more than banks elsewhere do for many of the services they offer". But the argument is based on high interest rates for personal loans right? Where did depositors come into picture? Is this not out of scope? Please clarify
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

my approach:

"Consumers in California seeking personal loans have fewer banks to turn to(...) This shortage of competition among banks explains why interest rates on personal loans in California are higher"

what explains here the fact the interest rates are higher? California has fewer banks.

but we are asked to weaken the conclusion.ie, find other explanation for the higher rates: A explains it - "Because of the comparatively high wages they must pay to attract qualified workers, California banks charge depositors more than banks elsewhere do..." - they have to pay their qualified workers, so they increase the rates.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To me this is a causation question.

Shortage of competition among banks -> high interest rates on personal loans

We are asked to weaken the conclusion

X is causing Y we need an answer that says Z is causing Y

A exactly does that. In D the Y part is missing. It just makes a statement leaving it to the test taker to make a decision.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would go with A,
it is the only question can eliminate the skeptical about the issue that in CA the competition of bank is poor.

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lunarpower
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

svaradhan wrote:
I have a doubt with answer choice A. It states - "Because of the comparatively high wages they must pay to attract qualified workers, California banks charge depositors more than banks elsewhere do for many of the services they offer". But the argument is based on high interest rates for personal loans right? Where did depositors come into picture? Is this not out of scope? Please clarify


this is a 'weaken the conclusion' part. to weaken the conclusion of a passage, you have to do the following 2 things:
* identify an assumption that holds in the passage - THIS must remain within the scope of the argument
* find a piece of OUTSIDE information that strikes down that assumption - THIS generally must come from OUTSIDE the scope of the original argument

in this problem, the questionable ASSUMPTION is the logical inference that the shortage of competition must be responsible for the higher interest rates; that is indeed within the scope of the passage.
HOWEVER,
to weaken the conclusion, you HAVE to bring in outside information: viz., an alternative explanation for the higher interest rates. obviously, an alternative explanation is going to have to come from outside the scope of the original passage!

in fact, the only way a correct 'weaken the conclusion' answer can stay completely within the scope of the original passage is to directly contradict one of the passage's premises; this pretty much doesn't happen (too simplistic, and not in keeping with the generally sacrosanct nature of the factual statements put forth as premises), so you should essentially always be looking outside the passage for statements that weaken the conclusion.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chidcguy wrote:
Please do not post answer along with the Question you post/ask

Let people discuss the Questions with out seeing answers.


there's something to be said for posting the official answers, actually. this is primarily a forum to which users come for information about why problems work the way they do and for problem-solving and technical guidance. to maximize that purpose, it's better to post the answers.
my understanding of this forum is that it's generally not a "problem of the day" type forum, on which people post random problems for the masses to solve.

i think the best solution is a happy medium: post the answers, but post them using "spoilers" or text that's the same color as the background, so that the text must be highlighted to be read.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

here's how to do the "spoiler" thing i just talked about:

type
[spoiler]
before the text you want to hide, and
[/spoiler]
after that text.
the text will then be displayed in black on a black background, rendering it unreadable unless it's highlighted.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ron, thanks a lot for clarifying my doubt. I have a similar doubt with the 50000 Norwegian smokers. I have posted the same question in this site. Please help me with that question too.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, people need to do this.

I'd prefer to have the spoiler on, than have people post answers to questions at a later time.

There's a lot of time that people don't come back to the forum on a timely manner, and we're always left guessing what OA was.

lunarpower wrote:
here's how to do the "spoiler" thing i just talked about:

type

before the text you want to hide, and

after that text.
the text will then be displayed in black on a black background, rendering it unreadable unless it's highlighted.
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