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lunarpower: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 3380; Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:20 am; Thanked: 2256 times; Followed by:1535 members; GMAT Score:800

by lunarpower » Fri May 28, 2010 5:06 am

received a private message re: choice (e)

choice (e) is wrong because it's not parallel.
you can't use parallel constructions with "those"/"that"/"the ones"/etc (these things are called "relative pronouns", if anyone is keeping track of nomenclature) unless they are EXACTLY PARALLEL to whatever shows up in the other part.

in this case:
you can't write "the ones killed by bee stings"
unless
the other part contains "people killed by the great white shark" (with NOTHING IN BETWEEN).
it doesn't -- there's a verb hanging out between "people" and "killed by..." -- so you can't.

this is really annoying at first, but, once you get used to this completely mechanical mentality, you'll find that it's one of the easier things to do on SC.
if you are a "quant person", you should be able to do these sorts of eliminations very quickly, because they operate on essentially mathematical principles (unlike, say, idiom or awkwardness issues).

Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

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haveto: Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts; Posts: 47; Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:50 pm

by haveto » Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:11 am

Hi,

Can someone please explain me why B is better than E?

In (B):
Q1 - what is the subject of "have been" in the second part?

In (E):
Q2 - in what circumstances we can use "ones" and why it is wrong here?

Q3 - I think I am really bad in recognizing what is countable and what is non-countable. I learnt very hard ways that "number of X" is a non-countable noun. Why comparing "seven people" is now different from "number of people"? Can someone please direct me to some link where I can get a good grasp on the concept?

I really need help - it's killing me!!

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haveto: Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts; Posts: 47; Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:50 pm

by haveto » Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:16 am

Ok - I missed Ron's previous post because it was on next page but it answers my Q2 only.

Anyone for Q1 and Q3?

Thanks everyone!

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haveto: Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts; Posts: 47; Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:50 pm

by haveto » Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:07 am

PLEASE DON'T RESPOND - I AM STARTING A NEW POST TO DISCUSS IT.

SORRY!

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Kajiabeat: Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts; Posts: 41; Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:10 pm

by Kajiabeat » Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:44 am

sparsh.21 wrote:Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the moviesï¿½less than those killed by bee stings.

A. moviesï¿½less than those
B. moviesï¿½fewer than have been
C. movies, which is less than those
D. movies, a number lower than the people
E. movies, fewer than the ones

OA is E

please explain why other options are incorrect.

Hi Ron,

I'm a little bit confused about the ellipsis in comparison,and I don't know if the rule you apply to explain E's fault can be applied to explain B.

The structure of the sentence is : only seven people have been killed by X, fewer than have been killed by Y.

and if we make this sentence a completed version, should it be as following? but it doesn't make sence: only seven people have been killed by X, fewer than only seven people have been killed by Y.

There's a rule I remembered about "things that can be omitted must exactly exists in the sentence somewhere"

I don't understand why this rule cannot be applied to this sentence and what kind of sentence should conform the rule.

Thank you very much!

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GMAT/MBA Expert

lunarpower: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 3380; Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:20 am; Thanked: 2256 times; Followed by:1535 members; GMAT Score:800

by lunarpower » Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:41 pm

kajiabeat, you shouldn't try to "fill in" the rest of the sentence, especially in comparisons. in general, if you try to "fill in missing words" in a comparison, you will get an awkward or incorrect construction.
in comparisons, you should just determine whether the existing portion is parallel to something in the other part of the sentence. you should NOT try to "fill in" the other part.

here, we have
have been killed by bee stings <--> have been killed by the great white shark
perfect parallelism. good to go.

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Kajiabeat: Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts; Posts: 41; Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:10 pm

by Kajiabeat » Sat Sep 03, 2011 3:55 am

lunarpower wrote:kajiabeat, you shouldn't try to "fill in" the rest of the sentence, especially in comparisons. in general, if you try to "fill in missing words" in a comparison, you will get an awkward or incorrect construction.
in comparisons, you should just determine whether the existing portion is parallel to something in the other part of the sentence. you should NOT try to "fill in" the other part.

here, we have
have been killed by bee stings <--> have been killed by the great white shark
perfect parallelism. good to go.

Hi Ron,

Thanks very much for clarifying that.
well, is there a rule like "things that can be omitted must exactly exists in the sentence somewhere"?

when should we use it? I'm a little confuse here.

Thank you.

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navami: Legendary Member; Posts: 540; Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:24 pm; Thanked: 37 times; Followed by:6 members

by navami » Sun Sep 04, 2011 1:16 am

Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies-less than those killed by bee stings.

A. movies-less than those (( Fewer should be used))
B. movies-fewer than have been (( the ones is needed. only verb alone would not do))
C. movies, which is less than those (( Fewer should be used))
D. movies, a number lower than the people (( Wrong comparison Number Vs People))
E. movies, fewer than the ones

This time no looking back!!!
Navami

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GMAT/MBA Expert

lunarpower: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 3380; Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:20 am; Thanked: 2256 times; Followed by:1535 members; GMAT Score:800

by lunarpower » Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:07 pm

Kajiabeat wrote:
lunarpower wrote:Thanks very much for clarifying that.
well, is there a rule like "things that can be omitted must exactly exists in the sentence somewhere"?

when should we use it? I'm a little confuse here.

Thank you.
in most cases you will be able to find an exact analogue, but, again, the issue is simpler than that; the best way to handle the situation is just to compare the competing options and decide which of them is most parallel to its counterpart in the other half of the sentence. if you take that kind of approach, you'll notice that problems like the one in this thread often become quite easy, because the issue becomes "just pick the choice that's better than the other choices" instead of "try to memorize 1000 rules about every possible situation".

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monge1980: Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts; Posts: 52; Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:24 am; Thanked: 2 times; GMAT Score:590

by monge1980 » Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:11 am

Hi guys, i am confused about the correct answer to this problem. Is it B or E?

Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the moviesï¿½less than those killed by bee stings.

A. moviesï¿½less than those
B. moviesï¿½fewer than have been
C. movies, which is less than those
D. movies, a number lower than the people
E. movies, fewer than the ones

OA is E

please explain why other options are incorrect.

B.movies, fewer than have been
E.movies, fewer than the ones

Thanks

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GMAT/MBA Expert

lunarpower: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 3380; Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:20 am; Thanked: 2256 times; Followed by:1535 members; GMAT Score:800

by lunarpower » Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:37 am

monge1980 wrote:Hi guys, i am confused about the correct answer to this problem. Is it B or E?

it's (b). read my posts in the rest of the thread; i've given just about all the explanation that i can (unless i am mistaking this thread for some other one).

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monge1980: Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts; Posts: 52; Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:24 am; Thanked: 2 times; GMAT Score:590

by monge1980 » Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:58 am

Thanks Ron, I have read your post about the answer B. However, someone is challenging your explanation claiming that E is the correct answer. See below ...

Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies-less than those killed by bee stings.

A. movies-less than those (( Fewer should be used))
B. movies-fewer than have been (( the ones is needed. only verb alone would not do))
C. movies, which is less than those (( Fewer should be used))
D. movies, a number lower than the people (( Wrong comparison Number Vs People))
E. movies, fewer than the ones

It would be helpful to solve the enigma. Do you think there is something else to add in order to strengthen the position that B is the correct answer?
Thanks Ron

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GMAT/MBA Expert

lunarpower: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 3380; Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:20 am; Thanked: 2256 times; Followed by:1535 members; GMAT Score:800

by lunarpower » Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:15 am

monge1980 wrote:Thanks Ron, I have read your post about the answer B. However, someone is challenging your explanation claiming that E is the correct answer. See below ...

this is a GMATPrep problem. the answer is (b); i have given copious explanations above. i honestly can't think of anything else to add to the explanations that occur earlier, especially the ones on page 2.
if for some reason you are still not convinced, you can search the problem all over the web. here are two more hits on this same forum:
https://www.beatthegmat.com/comma-with-e ... tml#380374
https://www.beatthegmat.com/gmatprep-pro ... 85081.html

also -- 6 copiously detailed posts from an expert moderator vs. 1 post from a non-expert poster (with no explanation whatsoever of the answer chosen as correct in that post) is definitely not an "enigma".
the moderators on this site are moderators for a good reason: we know what we're talking about (and, in the case of gmat prep, have seen these questions zillions of times already). if a non-expert forum user -- who is presumably here because he/she doesn't understand the material well enough -- is arguing against an expert moderator, then the best course of action is to ignore the non-expert user's posts completely and just read the moderator's posts.
in fact, this same sort of skill -- extracting what's relevant and ignoring the rest -- is the same sort of thing that will lead you to success on RC (not to mention in business). if you are paying just as much attention to random users' responses as to moderators' responses, that indicates that you are not prioritizing the use of your time very well.

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GMAT/MBA Expert

lunarpower: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 3380; Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:20 am; Thanked: 2256 times; Followed by:1535 members; GMAT Score:800

by lunarpower » Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:21 am

by the way, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't ask questions yourself (and read the moderators' answers to them); obviously, that is why this forum is here. however, it's important not to lose sight of which people are the experts here (not just myself) and of which people aren't.

random users post wrong answers on the forum all the time -- in fact, the vast majority of verbal threads that are over 1 page long have at least one or two users defending wrong answer choices. if you are going to consider every one of those threads an "enigma", then you're basically just going to stay confused forever.

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monge1980: Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts; Posts: 52; Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:24 am; Thanked: 2 times; GMAT Score:590

by monge1980 » Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:43 am

Lesson learnt Ron, lesson learnt.
Thanks a lot

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