News from GMAC (the people who make the GMAT!)
Editor’s Note: this post was edited on September 30, 2011, to reflect the information provided by GMAC.
I just got back from the biennial GMAC Test Prep Summit. (Quick: what does biennial mean? Just in case you see the word in a question!) We discussed a number of very interesting things. Don’t worry – I won’t totally geek out on you – but some of what we discussed will be useful for you even if you don’t make your career in test prep.
In this article, we’re going to discuss information from the conference that is relevant to everyone taking the test right now (or soon). Most of the key bits were gleaned from the presentations of Dr. Lawrence M. Rudner, Chief Psychometrician of GMAC. All quotes and statistics throughout this article are courtesy of Larry. Keep an eye out for a future article in which we’ll dive a bit more deeply into the Next Generation GMAT, which will launch in June of 2012. (Oh – and “biennial” means “every 2 years.”)
The myths are still myths
The earlier questions are not worth more. Accuracy is not more important than timing. We knew that already. Larry specifically made a point of reiterating these messages and asking for our help in disseminating the information – it really bothers him that the myths are still floating around out there, and it bothers me, too. This misinformation can cause students to receive lower scores than they might have otherwise. The whole point of my job as a teacher is to help people get better scores – so I definitely don’t want to see anyone fall short of a goal because he believed a myth that we could have dispelled.
Also, I know you’ve heard this before, but it bears repeating:
“There is a severe penalty for not completing the GMAT test.”
– Larry Rudner
For those who may not have seen the data before, Larry again showed us real data showing how a 70th percentile test taker would drop if she left the last five questions blank. Assuming that she was at the 70th percentile when she ran out of time, that student would end up with a 55th percentile score – a 15-percentile-point drop! (Note: the magnitude of the drop can change depending upon the scoring level. As a general rule, the higher the score, the more of a drop if you leave questions blank or have a string of wrong answers at the end.)
Sentence Correction is more and more about meaning rather than grammar
We’ve already been speculating about this and other Sentence Correction changes on the forums, and Larry confirmed this one. GMAC has asked ACT (the people who write the actual test questions for GMAC) to emphasize meaning more on SC questions. There are an increasing number of questions in which two or more answer choices are grammatically correct and the key distinction rests upon maintaining the meaning from the question stem. If you’re concentrating solely on the grammar and haven’t learned how to incorporate meaning into your assessment, you’re going to find the real GMAT harder.
If you’d like to see some examples of what I’m talking about, crack open your Official Guide Verbal Supplement 2nd Edition and take a look at question 37. Answer choices B and E are both grammatically correct, but only one maintains the original meaning of the question stem. Which one? (I think this is a great study question for multiple reasons, actually – more on that in a minute.)
While there are several superficial differences between the two answers, the major difference is in the placement of the phrase “last year.” Last year is a modifier that tells us when a specific action or event occurred. What happened last year?
According to the original sentence, the earthquake occurred last year. Do both answer choices B and E maintain that meaning? Nope. Only B does. E says that the buildings had been constructed last year. How do we know that?
“<Last year> some <of the buildings> <that were destroyed or heavily damaged> <in the earthquake> had been constructed…”
The stuff in brackets is all modifiers. The word “some” is the subject and the verb is “had been constructed.” “Of the buildings” modifies “some.” “that were destroyed…” modifies “buildings” and “in the earthquake” modifies “destroyed or damaged.” In other words, the subject “some” has a bunch of modifiers following it, but the modifier “last year” precedes the subject. “Last year” has to modify some kind of an action or event. The subject “some” isn’t an event or action, so “last year” can’t modify that. The next core part of the sentence is “had been constructed,” which is an action, so “last year” modifies that action. Note that, in the original sentence, the modifier “last year” appears as part of the prepositional phrase “in the earthquake last year” – that is, in the original sentence, “last year” is part of the nested modifiers for the subject, while in answer E, “last year” has been sort of pulled “up” to the level of the core sentence. And, voila, the meaning has been changed.
The other reason I really love this problem: it also illustrates a case of when we should change the original meaning of the sentence. Most of the time, we’re going to be maintaining the original meaning… but sometimes there’s something illogical about that meaning. In question 37, the problem says that some buildings “were destroyed and heavily damaged” but that doesn’t actually make sense! A building is either destroyed or heavily damaged, but it can’t be both simultaneously because these are two different states on the same continuum. The correct answer, B, switches that “and” to the more logical “or.” (Note that answers B and E both make this switch – they’re both completely grammatically and logically correct, so this one really does come down to the ability to maintain the original meaning of the sentence.)
Stop stressing about idioms
Note: a few days after this was originally published, GMAC clarified that only American-centric idioms and expressions have been stripped out of the exam. We have edited the below accordingly so as not to leave any misinformation to confuse other students in the future. (30 Sep 2011)
When we asked Larry about the relative importance of idioms on the SC section, he said basically zero! They’ve asked ACT to phase these kinds of idioms out completely and, ideally, there already aren’t any more questions that hinge on knowledge of American-centric idioms. (Though he doesn’t guarantee that, yet – there may still be some.) There are still many “regular” idioms that apply across all variations of the English language, however, and those idioms are still fair game.
That’s really good news, and I applaud GMAC for making this change. The only good reason to test American idioms is when you are specifically trying to test someone’s advanced English-language skills – for a translation or editing job for the American market, for example. Business is international and business schools care about your ability to communicate and make yourself understood, not whether you have 100% perfect American-based grammar.
We’re still parsing through a lot of the data that we received at the Summit; for instance, we’d like to know whether the currently released materials (OG12, etc.) have already been stripped of American-centric language. If so, we can confidently study anything we see in those sources, knowing that we’re not wasting time. As we have more for you, we will definitely share! And, as mentioned at the beginning of the article, we’ll have another article soon with details about the Next Generation GMAT®.
Rudner, Lawrence M. (2011). GMAT Psychometrics. Materials presented at the 2011 GMAC Test Preparation Summit, New York, NY. 15 Sept 2011.
* The text excerpted above from The Official Guide for GMAT Verbal Review 2nd Edition is copyright GMAC (the Graduate Management Admissions Council). The short excerpts are quoted under fair-use statutes for scholarly or journalistic work; use of these excerpts does not imply endorsement of this article by GMAC.


52 comments
vinni on September 20th, 2011 at 1:30 am
When will this change occur ?
Stacey Koprince on September 20th, 2011 at 6:55 am
Both are already occurring right now. They asked ACT (the question writers) a while ago to start doing both, so the pool of questions is *already* trending towards these two things. By how much? Don't know. They're not going to get rid of grammar entirely and only focus on meaning, so the "towards meaning" trend is not going to replace grammar.
For idioms, though, Larry was clear that his goal is actually to get rid of testing idioms as much as possible. They must have gone a decent way toward that goal already because when we asked how far they've gotten, he said that "ideally" all the idiom problems are *already* gone but he can't guarantee that because it takes time to find them all and pull them out or re-write them. So my guess is that there probably are still some idiom problems in ther but not as many as there used to be.
vinni on September 20th, 2011 at 3:09 am
Will the change happens in June 2012 ? It is mentioned above, but it also says "relevant to everyone taking the test right now (or soon)."
Please reply
Stacey Koprince on September 20th, 2011 at 6:56 am
now. see reply above.
sandeep on September 20th, 2011 at 6:44 am
Hi Stacey,
I have some confusion regarding the subject of meaning clarity.
To quote you "There are an increasing number of questions in which two or more answer choices are grammatically correct and the key distinction rests upon maintaining the meaning from the question stem".
What if the original sentence is incorrect? How can we be sure that the original sentence in this case still maintains the meaning correctly?
Thanks
Sandeep
Stacey Koprince on September 20th, 2011 at 6:59 am
That's exactly why I chose the OG example that I included - that one problem shows an example of when we must maintain original meaning *and* when we must change original meaning.
We ONLY change original meaning if there is something illogical or impossible about that meaning. Otherwise, we maintain original meaning. There's nothing illogical or impossible about saying that the earthquake was the event that occurred last year - so we maintain that meaning. It's not possible, however, for a single building to be simultaneously damaged AND destroyed - that doesn't make any sense. If you're only damaged, then you're not destroyed. If you're destroyed, then you're way beyond damaged. So that meaning has to change to "or" in the correct answer.
Sathya on September 20th, 2011 at 8:32 am
Hi Stacey,
Thank you so much for this article. It is very comforting to know that i need not spend time mindlessly learning the idioms and it could be better used for preparing other things.
You guys at manhattan gmat are doing a great job, completely understanding the students world.You and ron are my GMAT rock stars
Keep up the good work !
Stacey Koprince on September 20th, 2011 at 9:44 am
Thanks, Sathya.
Note that I think there are different kinds of idioms. I'll re-post something I just posted on another forum:
"My guess on the idioms issue (and I will continue my conversations with GMAC folks to see whether I can get more detail / clarity) is that idioms that don't mess up meaning (including "preposition" idioms) are the ones that will get downplayed. If you say "the teacher is affiliated with that organization" or "the teacher is affiliated to that organization" - well, one's grammatically correct and one's not, but someone's still going to understand what you mean, so why test that?
"On the other hand, if you don't understand the meaning of particular idioms (such as the example I gave in my article), well - that's now a meaning issue. I would imagine that that kind of stuff will probably still be in there. I would also guess that "adjacent" grammar issues will still be tested. Eg, in the idiom "From X to Y," there are two things to know: first, that "from" and "to" are paired, and second, that X and Y are parallel. Maybe they won't test us on the "from" and "to" pairing any longer, but parallelism is a different issue, and I would guess that they'll still test us on that."
Pochiraju on September 20th, 2011 at 10:09 am
I am sorry but does biannual not mean 2 times a year?
Stacey Koprince on September 20th, 2011 at 10:58 am
oh, how funny - I meant to type "biennial," which is an unusual word (and means every 2 years). I was trying to test you on a word most people haven't heard / don't use much - not "biannual" which most people have heard / used. I guess my fingers are more used to typing biannual and my eyes didn't notice!
Bob on September 20th, 2011 at 10:59 am
Nope, that's semi-annual
vinni on September 20th, 2011 at 11:45 am
Thanks Stacey for your reply. Last week i purchased foundation of GMAT verbal and that includes idioms. I was about to start idioms from SC 4th edition and from foundation of GMAT with O.G-12 questions so that i can have a thorough knowledge on idioms. Now i don't know from where to start.
As far as grammar is concerned. I don't think that GMAC can create sentences without checking grammar. Grammar is an important part of constructions. All i have learned in SC is that one should understand what the author is trying to say or what the author means in SC and then look for grammatical errors.
Please let us know if there are any more changes.
Thanks stacey.
Stacey Koprince on September 20th, 2011 at 12:35 pm
right, it's not that grammar is going away. Grammar is here to stay. It's just that they also want to test us on meaning, so there are going to be more meaning questions, proportionally, than there used to be (and than we see in OG, for example).
vinni on September 20th, 2011 at 11:48 am
I hope the "foundation of GMAT verbal book" includes the latest updates given by GMAC.
Stacey Koprince on September 20th, 2011 at 12:39 pm
No *book* out there could possibly contain the updates yet - they just told us this 4 days ago. It takes months to print a book.
That's why we use online media - to get the newsworthy stuff out right away.
Because there are going to be changes next year as well, with the new GMAT launching in June, I actually wouldn't expect to see any printed books addressing this stuff before maybe March of next year. Publishing a book is a long and expensive process - and this is just the very first piece of what we expect to be a lot of info over the next 4 to 5 months. There's not enough yet to justify printing an entirely new book.
vinni on September 20th, 2011 at 1:13 pm
Thanks Stacey.
So in coming months what we should expect. I mean to say no more idioms-list or fewer will be checked in SC.
Well, this article is mainly talking about changes in SC. What about quant, CR, and RC ?
I am aware about the next generation GMAT, but I read that there will be only integrated reasoning in the GMAT, which is a new update.
I hope quant remains same as well as others.
You know what i am currently demoralized at the moment because i am preparing for the GMAT from last one and a half year and giving the exam in December.
So, i am bit confused..
Stacey Koprince on September 20th, 2011 at 1:38 pm
This is GOOD news, not bad news! They didn't announce any major changes to any of the other sections. It's good news to know that we can downgrade the importance of idioms. I'm not guaranteeing that you won't see any - Larry himself wasn't sure yet and I've also emailed him to get more concrete details on what they do and don't consider idioms - but put idioms way down on the priority list now. Spend your time on areas that are more likely to be tested.
For the meaning stuff, this was always tested, but you're likely to see more (proportionally) than you're used to from the current OG and GMATPrep materials. So, yes, you need to seek these problems out and make sure you're studying them, but you were hopefully already studying meaning anyway.
Stu on September 20th, 2011 at 1:15 pm
Hi Stacy,
Thanks for the great article.So this means there will no longer be questions that depend solely on an idiom, right?
For other questions (with multiple errors) though, if we see an idiom error, can we still use it as a reason to eliminate? (Will the idioms used in sentences mostly be correct from now on, or should one just ignore it as there will be other grammatical/meaning errors present)?
Thanks for your help!
Stacey Koprince on September 20th, 2011 at 1:40 pm
I think that's the goal, yes, though Larry wasn't sure whether they've already managed to get rid of all of the idioms - so there may still be questions in there right now that hinge on idioms.
I've sent Larry an email to find out more details about what exactly they do consider idioms and what we can expect to be "removed" from the test. My guess is that they just won't even show idiom splits for the types of idioms that they want removed. (But again there may still be some in the database right now.)
Also, read my earlier post upthread at 9:44am under Sathya's comment.
vinni on September 20th, 2011 at 2:00 pm
Yes, i do focus on meaning. Thank you so much Stacey and really appreciate for your help.
Regards
Vinni
Shamit on September 20th, 2011 at 10:53 pm
Confused here! On what basis is GMAC dissociating "meaning" from "idiomatic accuracy" ?For example "NOT ONLY X BUT ALSO Y & Z" will not be construed as an error now??
Honestly though, I feel an idiom adds emotion to the sentence and it's a backward step from learning perspective for the students to exclude testing accurate idiomatic usage.
Shamit on September 20th, 2011 at 11:05 pm
Sorry all,
Missed Stacy's reply to Sathya. That takes care of my doubt. Cheers.
neha on September 21st, 2011 at 1:09 am
hi stacey ,i really liked the way you explained the "meaning" thing that might get involved into future gmat question and i do understand that its not easy for any institute to print a book revolving around these issues in such a short span of time .but there is one thing that ur manhattan gmat can do .can u people prepare a set of some 50 questions which expicitly deal with "meaning" error and make them available at ur manhattan gmat online store .that wud do a great help.it is bettter to practice some 50 odd question .
thanks
regards
neha
Stacey Koprince on September 21st, 2011 at 7:37 am
The very first thing I'm going to do, actually, is go through all the OG questions and list out the ones that I think deal with meaning. The real thing = the best thing. Also note that meaning extends into certain grammar topics as well - modifiers are very intricately intertwined with meaning. You could argue, in fact, that modifiers are really all about meaning. And pronouns are as well.
I hope to have something for everyone by the end of this week, but it may not be till next week.
Also FYI - it actually takes a very long time to write a new, really good question - to write 50 new questions would be a couple of months at least. Better to go straight to the real thing, I think. I do wish we had more recent examples from the real source - but we'll have to use what we've got!
Mirant on September 21st, 2011 at 10:01 am
Thanks a lot Stacey. I am looking forward to your list of OG questions with such meaning issues. I ll bookmark this page for any further updates.
Also,I found GMATprep questions trickier than the retired OG questions.Can we have a list of Gmatprep questions with such issues too ?
Stacey Koprince on September 21st, 2011 at 10:45 am
yes (to GMATPrep), but that will be longer term because I don't have a recent comprehensive list of GMATPrep questions. I need to update my list first by re-taking GMATPrep a few times! (I know lots of people post these online already, but I don't trust that enough - I need to see it in the software myself, because I've seen lots of transcription errors over the years in things that people have entered online themselves!
)
hemanttriv on September 21st, 2011 at 11:43 am
Thanks Stacey. That's really valuable information. Thanks a lot!
neha on September 21st, 2011 at 12:21 pm
hi
stacey ,firstly thanks for ur reply .also appreciate the efforts ur making to make this whole new thing a little simplified ..i will be eagerly waiting for that list that u will be making out of og .that will indeed help us a lot
thanks n regards
neha
Stacey Koprince on September 21st, 2011 at 12:34 pm
Hi, guys
I received a reply from Larry (Dr. Rudner - whom I quote in the article). He's traveling right now, so can't check specific details of problems and what is or isn't included idiom-wise, but he did have this to say (quotes from him):
"I had no idea that students were studying idioms in preparation for the GMAT and that this is a big deal."
-->So it's good that we told him! I think this is a too-be-expected disconnect between the publicly-released - and by definition older - materials that we all see, such as the OG, and the new materials - but super-secret and not released - that he works with now. We have to go by the older stuff, of course, but he and his team are working exclusively with the newer stuff and don't necessarily realize what we don't know.
"We have been phasing them [idioms] out ever since our transition to truly managing the test ourselves in 2006. Idioms of all forms, as well as anything that is unnecessarily US centric, do not belong on any test that is used globally, and certainly not on a test designed to measure reasoning skills as opposed to basic skills."
--> So, yes, they really are trying to minimize bias against non-native speakers / international testers.
Larry writes a column once every - I forget, either every month or every 2 months - and he's going to put idioms on his topic list. He may not be able to address this topic in his very next article, but he does want to address idioms when he can. Once he does, I'll get a copy and tell you what I think of what he says (much as I did for the conference).
I also suggested to him that a great theme in general for an article or ongoing series would be "Don't stress about X" where X = things that either aren't tested or aren't very commonly tested. He does like that idea and hopes to do something like that in future as well. If he does, I'll make sure to distribute a link so you can all read it! (And maybe there should be another one called "DO stress about Y!")
Sam on September 21st, 2011 at 10:34 pm
Thanks Stacey! You are a true Rockstar and life saver!!
Stacey Koprince on September 23rd, 2011 at 7:39 am
New info! Larry just emailed me again.
Two very important things:
(1) Larry just got back into the office and was able to check on some of these idiom issues (he was traveling earlier this week). He was able to clarify that [u]American-centric[/u] idioms and expressions are the ones that they have dropped / been dropping. Idioms that are [i]not[/i] American-centric are [u]still in[/u]. That's all he's told me so far - he said "more to come" in his email. I'll let you know when I have more.
This, of course, begs the question: which ones are American-centric and which ones aren't? Unfortunately, there isn't a definitive list of the idioms which do get tested (and there are thousands of idioms in the language), so we can't just point and say "study this, don't study that." My guess is that the ones that we see in OG12 have probably already been mostly stripped of American-centric idioms, because they published that after they decided to start getting rid of the American-centric stuff.
So the lesson there is to study what you see in official questions (which, interestingly, was what we already said before because there are, as we've noted, so many idioms in the language). Also - if you have learned non-American English (British English, for example) and see something where you think "really? I thought that was " - then ignore that one.
(2) We've been saying that these aren't *major* changes, though they are news and we do want to take action. In particular, meaning has always been there - it's just that there are proportionally more questions now. If you have been studying meaning, then you should be okay whether you have to answer 3 or 5 or 8 questions that hinge on meaning. (Note - I'm making those numbers up - we don't know how many questions will test meaning.) And meaning has been on GMATPrep CATs and other CATs as well, so you have been seeing meaning issues when you take CATs.
If you have been neglecting meaning... then you have some work to do. But that would've been the case even if they hadn't said they've got more questions that revolve around meaning now.
And re: the idioms, see above.
Priya on September 23rd, 2011 at 8:49 am
Thanks Stacey for staying at the top of this. Really truly appreciate your efforts! It helps to know that you guys are there for us!!
e-GMAT has posted list of 32 questions in their course that are in the new format. Check this link out. http://e-gmat.com/blogs/?p=745
Karthik on September 23rd, 2011 at 10:53 am
Hi Stacey, with regards to the statement :
"The earlier questions are not worth more. Accuracy is not more important than timing." I have read in one of the forums that the GMAT algorithm calculates the time taken to answer a question and that the points are awarded depending on the time taken to answer the question. Does the algorithm work that way or does it award the points solely on the difficulty level of the question ?
Stacey Koprince on September 23rd, 2011 at 11:15 am
We have asked that question in the past and have been told that the algorithm does NOT take into account the length of time taken to answer the question.
I suppose it's possible they could've changed that since we last asked the question, but I doubt it - I would assume it's still the case that the algorithm doesn't pay any attention at all to length of time taken to answer one question.
If you take way too long on earlier questions, then the algorithm is already designed to catch that with the penalties for running out of time, having many questions wrong in a row, etc.
Stacey Koprince on September 23rd, 2011 at 1:36 pm
Hi, all
I have been working on my OG "meaning" list but it's not done yet - for a very good reason. There are more meaning issues in the OG than even I would have guessed (and I was expecting quite a few)! So the really good news is that there's a lot for us to study. But I won't have my list out till Monday.
We'll be posting the list on our blog Monday morning sometime; once I have the link, I'll come here and post it for you. Have a good week-end!
Vinni on September 24th, 2011 at 11:37 am
Thanks Stacey.
gmat.acer on September 28th, 2011 at 12:34 pm
Hi Stacey,Thank you so much for keeping us all updated regarding this developent in GMAT. I wanted to share the result from an experiment that I did over last few days after reading this post. I solved 50 Qs from OG12 - Q#70 to 120- by focussing primarily on meaning (& few grammar topics - of course!) instead of focussing mainly on grammar and keeping meaning & concision as the last resort. The result was surprising - my accuracy jumped from 60-65% to 85-90%! and that too on relatively tougher OG12 questions.
Not to sound pushy, but when approximately your list will be published?
Summary of grammar topics I focussed on:Old techniqueprimary topics to test - sv agreement, parallelism/comparisons, pronounssecondary topics - meaning, verbs, idioms
New techniqueprimary grammar topics - meaning by keeping an eye on subtle meaning differences arising from comma+verbING, verbING without comma, comma+prepositions, etc., parallelism, and modifier placement.secondary topics - sv agreement, pronouns, verbs, idioms.
So seems like focussing mainly on meaning along with few other grammar topics is definitely a great help in raising SC score specially on harder questions.
I am going to solve the questions from your list with my new technique - and I hope to get all of them right!
gmat.acer on September 28th, 2011 at 1:33 pm
Sorry for the bad formatting in the earlier post - didn't realize that I needed to use HTML tags explicitly.
Anyway I found the list of OG 12 questions on mgmat site. Thank you.
Stacey Koprince on September 28th, 2011 at 1:54 pm
Great - yes, everyone, you can find the list on MGMAT's blog - I think we're posting the data in 3 separate posts.
Note that this is one person's research (mine) and it hasn't gone through a rigorous vetting process - we wanted to get something out fast for those who are taking the test soon. But I'm hoping you guys will tell me when you disagree with anything on the list or my reasoning for it so that we can, over time, better define what "meaning" really means.
gmatIntent on September 29th, 2011 at 11:25 pm
I couldn't locate the link. Can someone provide me the link please?
Thanks
Parag Mundada on September 30th, 2011 at 6:01 am
Stacey,could not locate the link. Can you please help
Stacey Koprince on September 30th, 2011 at 6:26 am
Here is our blog:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/
There are many posts there about this issue now. This is the link to the specific post with the list; it is currently the second blog post down if you just go to the blog:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index.php/2011/09/26/list-of-official-guide-problems-that-deal-with-meaning/#more-2078
Stacey Koprince on September 30th, 2011 at 6:29 am
Hi, guys, Larry has put out an official statement about the idiom and meaning issues, clarifying (as we mentioned last week) that only *American-centric* idioms and language have been tossed out, not all idioms.
See here:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index.php/2011/09/29/update-from-larry-rudner-on-idioms-etc/
Voodoo Child on August 31st, 2012 at 2:22 pm
Stacey,
Sorry for opening this old article. You have said that E) is grammatically correct. I feel that it isn't. Please help me
E) = Last year some of the buildings that were destroyed or heavily damaged in the earthquake had been constructed in violation of X
(without modifiers)
Last year some of the buildings HAD BEEN constructed in violation of X.
However, I believe that here, there is no past tense that could act as a time marker for the past perfect tense - "had been".
What are your thoughts?
[Here's another source of your article : http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index.php/2011/09/19/idioms-myths-and-more-news-from-the-gmac/ However, the article's layout is so much off that it is virtually impossible to post a comment there. No matter what - I am a big fan of MGMAT and your team including you!
I have learned a lot from your forums ]
Thanks
Stacey Koprince on September 3rd, 2012 at 4:50 pm
First, just one quick "mindset" change: if you're ever looking at an official question and answer and think "this doesn't feel right to me," tell yourself, "This is what the official test-writers think. It doesn't matter whether I think it's right - I have to accept that it is because they say it is. I just have to learn to think they way they do!"
Next, there is a time marker in there: "were destroyed or damaged" is past tense. The time marker or other usage of past tense can exist in a modifier - there's no rule that says it has to be part of the main clause. (In fact, in the real world, the time marker or other usage of past tense can be in a completely different sentence - it doesn't even have to be in the same sentence! That's a "rule" on the GMAT only because the GMAT gives us just one sentence at a time for SC.)
The car that I bought last year had been owned by George Clooney.
I bought it last year (past tense)
*Before* I bought the car (in the past), it was owned by George Clooney. It had been owned by George Clooney.
Voodoo Child on September 1st, 2012 at 10:59 am
Dear Stacey,
I am awaiting an expert help from you
I hope that you saw my comment above
I thought of dropping a reminder note....
Thanks in advance
Stacey Koprince on September 3rd, 2012 at 4:55 pm
See above. Also FYI - I've been on vacation since 29 August (and don't actually come back to work until 6 September - I just came on to answer to be nice
).
For future, know that it's typical to wait up to a week or two for a reply when getting expert help for free. There are certainly ways to get immediate help... but that usually involves signing up for something like private tutoring (that is, paying a fee to get very fast / immediate service from an expert - as with anything in life!).
Voodoo Child on September 3rd, 2012 at 5:27 pm
Thanks for your response, Stacey! I am sorry, and I had no intention of disturbing you. Many times, in the past, the website doesn't send notifications to the instructors. I assumed that this time similar thing could have happened. I was not sure. I am sorry.
Regarding your comment - I agree that OA are correct. I am a big follower of Ron's principle.
But I guess E) is an incorrect answer choice.
Do you think taht the following sentence is incorrect?
I had driven car, which was discarded by my friend.
I am not sure. "which ..." stuff is not essential to the meaning of the main clause. I agree with your point about the existence or the validity of past perfect in a different main clause. In fact, in one of your posts on MGMAT, you wrote that normally past perfects are all contextual, and could be anywhere in the paragraph. However, on the GMAT, the story is a bit different because we have only one sentence. Hence, I thought of asking you. Thanks again for your response.
Voodoo
Voodoo Child on September 3rd, 2012 at 5:28 pm
{a minor point - In this question from VR II, the correct answer choice is B).}
Stacey Koprince on September 4th, 2012 at 10:27 am
Right, I should have clarified, sorry - while E is incorrect, it's really only incorrect because of a meaning issue. The original indicates that the earthquake happened last year, as does correct answer B. Answer E makes this meaning ambiguous - was it the construction or the earthquake?
Your example sentence is a little off because of an idiomatic issue - in an actual conversation, you'd say something more like "I frequently drove that car, which was later discarded by my friend." Note that I could use past perfect there but don't have to, because I indicate through language which action happened later (by literally using the word "later").
For sentences that *can* take past perfect, you aren't *required* to use past perfect - it's more of an idiomatic choice, but the GMAT won't test you on that particular nuance.
But let's say that a friend asked me to bake her a chocolate cake and a carrot cake and then decided she didn't want one of them after all:
I had already finished baking the cake that she then decided she didn't want.
So I'm supposed to make two cakes. I've made the chocolate one and then she tells me that she doesn't want it after all! The "that" stuff is a modifier, telling me more info about one specific cake - the modifier also contains the later action and, therefore, the justification for using "had (already) baked."
This is an example of an essential modifier, as opposed to your example. Could we have one with a nonessential modifier? Yes, but I can't think of a specific example that would use a "which" modifier, because "which" modifiers are more like: by the way, here's a random piece of info that I just happen to want to add to the story, but it doesn't *really* matter. So you wouldn't use that setup if the piece of information did really matter to the main clause.
The Dark Knight on September 4th, 2012 at 8:12 pm
Thanks Stacey for your detailed response. Your responses are really amazing. One response kills hundreds of doubts. Just to summarize :
- one shouldn't cross off past perfect tense just because the succeeding event is buried inside the modifier.
-Don't force past perfect when one can use past tenses.
Correct?
Stacey Koprince on September 4th, 2012 at 9:31 pm
Yes to #1. Also to #2 when you're writing something yourself but the test won't make you choose between past and past perfect in an instance when it's okay to use either one. That'd be choosing between two correct options and, of course, they don't make us do that. :