Beat The GMAT a GMAT & MBA community

Just to make it clear I have never went to Schulich or HEC. Ive read a lot about Schulich though as it is one of three schools that are of the most interest to me. I can see how dishing out extra $35 000 is painful. However, I remember reading an article by the dean of Rotman school of buisness in regards to Canadian and U.S. MBA's, and the point he made was that as long as you can obtain the funds to do an MBA, the actual cost does not matter, since the return on MBA is high. What matters is where you want to be and how you want to use that MBA degree. I think Schulich has best Marketing program in Canada and a distinct vision of what a corporate leader should be like (which is one which is sensetive to the global environment). If you want best Marketing education and you do share the same vision, go Schulich, otherwise I would go HEC. As far as negative comments posted about Schulich, well I find them to be quite racist. I think it is those people who make these comments that should be kicked out of Schulich MBA because they do not believe in a Schulich's global picture (I am referring to comments made in regards to Schulich students, other than that I found comments on Schulich to be overwhelmingly positice, I dont know if it was you experiance as well.)

p.s. What is your profile? GMAT, GPA (overall and last two), work esperiance.

No I wasn't referring to the racist comments. The things I've read about is how Ivey and Rotman get all the recruiters in Toronto and how Schulich students have to find their own jobs instead of through the career centre. However, I am unclear whether people were referring specifically to i-banking or in general. NEED OPINION ON THIS.

While it is true that stats show that an MBA offers a high ROI, one must look more carefully at the numbers. The average post-MBA salary for someone in Marketing is somewhere around $70000 while $100000 for ibanking. Therefore, investing more dough for an MBA in marketing will not really offer a high ROI. A more extreme example would be in the case of those specializing in non-profit...

My biggest concern is that Schulich, while more known than HEC globally, seems to fall behind Rotman and Ivey in Toronto. Even though HEC is not known outside of Quebec, it still comes #1 or #2 in Montreal. Granted, there more opportunities in Toronto...

My profile:

GMAT: 640
Undergrad GPA: 2.85
Extra Curriculum: Good
Fluent Languages: 3
Work Experience: 4.5 years
Experiences and essays: Pretty good (according to the director of admissions)

T_mtl

I dont know if I share your opinion. I heard that Ivey has actually had problems as many recruiters pulled away after it opted for one year MBA. Some of these concerns even made it onto Ivey's profile in Buisness Week rankings. I have heard that for Schulich grads there are difficulties for finance students competing with Rotman and Ivey grads, yes; but it is limited to finance only. As for marketing vs finance, well we know that as a field, finance and consulting jobs generally pay more. However, do not fixate on starting salaries. If you go to Forbes buisness rankings and compare Schulich to Sauder you will find that starting salaries are similar, within $1000-$2000 dollars away from eachother. However, after five years the gap is whopping $20 000-$10 000 (cant remembers figures exactly but they are very sizable)! Most MBA's start with similar salarie ranges, however, better branded MBA's outpace more obscure schools as time goes on.
The people who I know who went to do their MBA or finished it, seem to have a concensus that brand matters. As for me, while affording any MBA will force me to stretch my current financial abilities beyond my limit actually, I view MBA as a life style choice. Therefore I choose to eliminate the cost of MBA out of my equation, and concentrate on which MBA will help me to get where I want to be tomorrow and beyond. I can earn $70 000 later, but I will never have a chance to do an MBA again...

You bring some interesting points. Perhaps Ivey's change to a one-year program may hurt its reputation down the road, but it is too early to say as it is still the most reputable bschool in Canada.

It's an interesting point that you make about starting salaries and salaries after five years. However, I can offer an alternative explanation why grads from Sauder end up making less than grads from Schulich. The average student from Schulich is better academically and/or has better work experience coming into the program. Therefore, it not necessarily due to Schulich having a better brand name or program. A dude that has no MBA can easily have a better salary increase after five years than someone with an MBA if he performs better. On the other hand, I believe that a person with a reputable MBA will most often start with a higher salary. What he does after is up to him. Don't get me wrong, I am not arguing against getting an MBA. I'm simply trying to decide between two schools where the reputation and tuition is different.

Although cost should not be the only factor, it remains an important criteria. As a "business person", one must consider return on investment. In my case, I currently work in IT and already make close to the average MBA grad in marketing makes after graduation. Therefore, changing careers will not significantly boast my $$. So it's not easy to convince myself to pay more for tuition knowing that I won't have a significant salary increase. There is less risk with HEC...

In sum, I am prepared to pay more for a better education, experience and brand name. However, I would be pretty upset if I pay $50,000 and the school can't help me find a decent job. If I pay $6,500 and don't find a job, I'll still be upset but a little less...

By the way, I met last week with the Director of Admissions and Recruitment at Schulich so I have a good idea of the types of students they want. Don't hesitate to ask for advice.

So what did the admissions officer say? The only concern I have on my application is my work experiance. I finished my undergrad a month ago, it took me 6 years part time. Out of those 6 I worked 4 full time. As a result my "career progress" was stalled as I always was in need of a flexible schedule. During those year established myself as a solid veteran in retail sales though, so refrences wount be a problem. I talked to Rotman, they dont care, as long as there are 2 years of experiance somewhere. Schulich seem to want 2 years experiance after graduation specifically. So I dont really know what are my chances of getting in there now...

As long as your work experience is relevant then I wouldn't worry about it. The application provides a space to write additional information so just explain your situation. Actually, what you did during your undergrad is not different than what some students do at the MBA level at Schulich. The director explained to me that it is common that students in the program switch from full-time to part-time and vice-versa. For example, after an internship, some students extend the internship to a full year with the company and continue their studies part-time. Or, some are even offered a permanent job, so they need complete their MBA part-time.

To be honest, I am unsure how difficult/easy it is to get in Schulich. From my research, it seems relatively easy to get in as long as you don't have any huge blemish. However according to their profile on Business Week, they only accept 26% of the applicants whereas a school like Rotman accepts 42%. However, most people say that it's harder to get in Rotman...
I guess both schools may not attract the same applicants.

The one thing I noticed when I met the director was that she knew my profile really well. So I envision that they do more than just glance at the GMAT, GPA and # years of work experience. For example, she discussed about how I selected as my third choice "International Business" and that had international exposure and spoke three languages. Many students simply put anything as their third choice, but you need it to be consistent with the rest of your profile/application.

So, if you have a GMAT score above 600, have shown leadership skills in your essays, have a 3-4 years of relevant experience and have been consistent in your application, then you should be good to go.

Thanks for the encouragment and info. Although at Schulich i am looking at IMBA to be honest with you. Im sure they are looking for the same qualities though. Im guessing you are staying in Montreal. It seems you are leaning that way. Which is great, HEC is a great school, I guess I never considered it because I dont speak french. Rate of admission in Buisness Week is unreliable. They say that 110% of applicants got in U of Alberta mba. I understand the first 100% where did the extra 10% came from?

p.s. I cant believe I say this cause I am a Leaf fan, but I really hope Habs go all the way.

Getting an MBA is not only about money, but also having much more options to choose from. Do not base your decision only on the possible income, I believe it is totally wrong! People that are passionate about something are those that often get millionaires whereas rational people are doing not bad, but rarely as good as these passionate people. In my opinion, the money invested towards the MBA and your salary should be the least of your concerns while choosing a school... but it's my $0.02!

Je te souhaite bonne chance dans toute cette aventure et j'espère que ta décision sera juste et réfléchie!

Bon succès!

sch,

It may not look like it, but I'm actually leaning towards Schulich. I'm defending the HEC choice, since I want be completely sure that Schulich is for me. If you were promoting the HEC program, I would probably do the opposite. By the way, the full-time HEC MBA program is also offered in English.

Yes, the IMBA requirements are the same as the regular MBA, but you must know a second language and be interested in international business. In fact, the director recommended me the program since I am fluent in three languages. However, I don't really like the smaller class size and the fact that I would lose the flexibility to switch from full-time to part-time. Besides that, it looks interesting.

carlelecat,

I'm not basing my decision solely on income or ROI, but I am merely saying that it is a factor. What I'm saying is that if all else is equal except for tuition and brand name, would the brand name be worth the tuition. If the school in question were Harvard then there would be no debate. However, is Schulich brand worth it? To answer this we must look at the ROI. Forbes does a good job to rank the schools by ROI where both Schulich and HEC are among the tops. Schulich is ranked higher, but the calculations done for HEC is based on the international tuition fee ($28000) not the Quebec domestic fee. ($6500). Merci pour tes voeux et bonne chance à toi aussi!

Go habs go!

Hello

I am an Indian IT consultant working in Finance domain.An engineering graduate with 4 years of experience,got 650 in GMAT Undergraduate 73% by India standards(hope it cums above gPA3).

I am targeting HEC Monteal/Concordia/Mcgill due to their cost effectiveness & ROI.I would prefer a 1 year program,so a little bias towards HEC.But I don't know French,will it affect my future plans of landing in a job & settling in Canada post MBA.Is HECs MBA recognized outside Quebec?

Else,I would play a long shot for Schulich.

Pls suggest,thanks in anticipation.