gmat prep - stars

Vignesh.4384 · Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:32 pm Post subject: gmat prep - stars

Hi,

Please help me reason why the OA is E .
I think the sentence has a wierd constrction and "IT" in the later part of the sentence tends to be ambiguous ..

Vignesh.4384 · Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:02 pm Post subject:

Some one pls help Confused

stubbornp · Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:48 pm Post subject:

Both D & E are gramatically correct....

But I also chose d if i was in place of you.... Confused

Vignesh.4384 · Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:02 pm Post subject:

figured it out myself Smile

Stacey Koprince · Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:22 am Post subject:

I received a PM asking me to comment on this question.

FYI: in future, it's very helpful if you type the question out rather than posting it as a JPG. When we reply, we can't see the JPG figure on the same page, so we have to keep going back and looking at the problem on a different web page - it takes a lot longer to answer that way.

For pronouns, we have to make sure that the noun match is both logically and structurally sensible.

When you have a structure like this one:
Once <noun subject> <verb> <object containing a noun>, <pronoun subject> <verb> <object>...

The structural expectation is that the subject of the first part will also be the subject of the second part - so the <noun subject> should match the <pronoun subject>. If that also makes logical sense (which it does in this case), then you're good, as long as there isn't another pronoun which makes both structural and logical sense. In other words, in this case, we're good.

In answer D, the <noun subject> is not actually the noun we want to match with the pronoun, so that's one problem. The other problem is that the noun to which we want to refer (Sun) is not a straight noun in the sentence; instead, it is a possessive noun (Sun's). We are only allowed to use possessive pronouns to refer to possessive nouns, but "it" is not a possessive pronoun.

For example:
Susie's dad wouldn't let her go to the game.
Logically, "her" should refer to Susie. But we've got the possessive pronoun "Susie's" in the sentence, and "her" is not a possessive pronoun in this case. The simplest way to check to see if it will work is to pick up the noun to which the pronoun is apparently referring and try to place it in the sentence where the pronoun is currently. Eg:
Susie's dad wouldn't let Susie's go to the game.
That doesn't work, obviously, so the structure is wrong.

Try this one:
Susie's dad didn't like her friend.
replace the pronoun with the possessive noun:
Susie's dad didn't like Susie's friend.
That one's okay.

Vignesh.4384 · Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:11 am Post subject:

Stacey Koprince · Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:43 am Post subject:

That's another valid way of thinking about it, yes - either that it changes the meaning or that the pronoun is simply referring to the wrong thing (if you know that, logically, it should be referring to the sun). Either way, you know the answer is wrong! Smile

stubbornp · Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:57 pm Post subject:

ya...i got that...in D Hydrogen is the subject..

Its also refers to hydrogen which makes it awkward.

Vignesh.4384 · Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:04 am Post subject:

Stacey Koprince · Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:14 am Post subject:

Just to clarify: this holds when you have a pronoun subject in the 2nd clause, not just any old pronoun at all. Also, it doesn't mean that you MUST refer to the noun subject of the first clause - it just means that you woudl most often expect it to structurally, so if that noun subject is an actual match in terms of singular or plural, then you have to consider that noun subject a possible antecedent. If there's another, logical match in the sentence, then you have ambiguity (ie, more than one noun that could be the antecedent, either logically or structurally) and that's a problem.

In the example you've given, "they" is not a problem. Logically it refers to "consumers." Structurally, it would refer to "price," which is not plural... so "they" is not a candidate to refer to "price." No ambiguity is created (there's only one noun that matches in terms of number), so it's fine.

I did a search to see if I could find the source of the problem. I didn't get a definitive answer but it seemed to come from the 1000 SC sets. I also found another site which claimed the official answer was D, not C.

1000SC has many good questions, but it also has some downright bad ones, including problems on which the right answer has errors in it, and the official answer is wrong. It is a mix of old paper and pencil questions and apparently either bad questions from other sources, or errors introduced into good questions via transcription. The problem is: you don't know which ones are good and which are bad,

Vignesh.4384 · Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:20 am Post subject:

java_ka_jalwa · Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:23 pm Post subject:

I think what the sentence wants to convey is that the price continues to increase even if the consumers do not have violations. I.e the even for consumers who surely do no have any violations, they have to face an increase in insurance rates. "may be" introduces some kind of doubt as compared to "they are"

my 2 depreciated paisas

Stacey Koprince · Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:08 pm Post subject:

yeah, I'd go with that. C maintains the original meaning completely; D tweaks it ever so slightly.

sunnychopra · Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:24 pm Post subject:

Hi Stacey,
i got this concept but i am little confused

. there is one Question been discussed on our forum[http://www.beatthegmat.com/neurosecretion-t18339.html] i have picked the below question from that thread only.

Until Berta and Ernst Scharrer established the concept of neurosecretion in 1928, scientists believed that either cells secreted hormones, which made them endocrine cells and thus part of the endocrine system, or conducted electrical impulses, in which case they were nerve cells and thus part of the nervous system.

a) either cells secreted hormones, which made them
b) either cells secreted hormones, making them
c) either cells secreted hormones and were
d) cells either secreted hormones, in which case they were
e) cells either secreted hormones, which made them

Finding answer is an easy task in this case as it is an clear example of parallelism. OA is D. however i am not understanding that whether 'they' is refering to cells or hormones? as both are plural.

So, could you please help me out.
This question is just an extension to vignesh's discussion.

Thanks

Stacey Koprince · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:49 am Post subject:

Just in terms of pure strategy, you actually answered the question yourself - you don't need to worry about the "they" issue in order to answer the question. And I have actually seen official questions in which I would consider a pronoun ambiguous, but there are other clear reasons to eliminate all 4 wrong answers. When we are actually tested on pronoun issues, they make it more clear - but we aren't getting a "them / it" split or anything like that in this one, so that's not what's being tested.

I know that's not the most satisfying answer, but it is what it is.

Here, the structure is:
Cells either did X, in which case they were A, or did Y, in which case they were B.

Our pronoun refers to cells both logically and structurally (notice that subject-placement again), so we're good.

If, in this case, the logical match were actually hormones, then we'd have a problem, because we'd have one logical match (hormones) and a different structural match (cells), both of which are plural. That would be ambiguous.