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## Estimated At vs Estimated To Be

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mankey GMAT Destroyer!
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Estimated At vs Estimated To Be Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:52 pm
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Dear Experts

Please comment, if the below sentence is correct in GMAT sense:

When Duma deputy Gennady Gudkov left Pushkin Square Monday night, the crowd -- estimated by the police at 14,000 -- was just starting to disperse.

Regards.

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avik.ch GMAT Destroyer!
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Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:32 pm
I do not think there is any error here,

Since, "at" is a preposition, we need a noun to be its object i.e 14,000.

refer this : http://www.beatthegmat.com/sc-with-surface-temperatures-estimated-at-minus-230-degrees-t43734.html - "estimated at" in the non underlined portion.

Hope this helps !!

mankey GMAT Destroyer!
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Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:45 pm
Thanks Avik.

But when to use "estimated to be" and when to use "estimated at"? The OG says "estimated to be" is the right idiom and not "estimated at".

Kindly help.

Regards.

patanjali.purpose GMAT Destroyer!
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Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:55 am
mankey wrote:
Dear Experts

Please comment, if the below sentence is correct in GMAT sense:

When Duma deputy Gennady Gudkov left Pushkin Square Monday night, the crowd -- estimated by the police at 14,000 -- was just starting to disperse.

Regards.
The crowd estimated at 14,000 - this is what has happened to Noun (here CROWD).

The crowd estimated to be 14,000 - this is what will happen to Noun (not sensible here as the crowd is already dispersed)

More insight: http://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/estimated-to-be-versus-estimated-at-t7889.html

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avik.ch GMAT Destroyer!
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Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:02 am
Yes, exactly Patanjali.

After the tsunami, Japan's Insurance loses estimated to be XX \$.
- since an infinitive is used for something indefinite in the future - here it signifies XX\$ is not the exact value , there is some variation

After the tsunami, Japan's Insurance loses estimated at XX \$ -- the value is confirmed, no variation is there.

In OG-12 #27, since a range is given (40 to 44 million years) "to be" is right.

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lunarpower GMAT Instructor
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Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:37 am
mankey wrote:
The OG says "estimated to be" is the right idiom and not "estimated at".
this is one of those instances in which the OG explanation is inaccurate. (that happens infrequently, but not as infrequently as one might hope.)

fortunately, what's happening is pretty simple: "at" is a preposition, and so (like other prepositions) needs to have a noun as its object.
"40 to 44 million years old" is not a noun, so, wrong.
(if the sentence had said something like The age of xxxx was estimated at 40 to 44 million years, then that version would be fine.)

as proof, consider the following from GMAT PREP:
With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, Jupiter’s moon Europa has...
estimated at + noun ... again, no problem.

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vikram4689 GMAT Titan
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Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:42 am
Quote:
"40 to 44 million years old" is not a noun, so, wrong.
Hi Ron,
Please elaborate this comment

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lunarpower GMAT Instructor
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Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:58 am
vikram4689 wrote:
Quote:
"40 to 44 million years old" is not a noun, so, wrong.
Hi Ron,
Please elaborate this comment
"old" is an adjective.

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GMAT Kolaveri Really wants to Beat The GMAT!
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Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:55 am
Lunarpower..
Request you to help with both the correct and incorrect usage of estimated at and estimated to be

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ronnie1985 GMAT Destroyer!
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Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:36 am
Nice explanation

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souvik101990 Just gettin' started!
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Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:09 pm
* "at" is a preposition.
* prepositions must be followed by nouns.
* "xxx number of years old" is not a noun.
so, wrong.

in the other example -- "temperatures estimated at xxxx degrees fahrenheit" -- there's no problem, because "xxxx degrees fahrenheit" is a noun.

i don't think anything else is happening here.
the OG explanations are wrong fairly regularly (though not in most cases); this is one of those times.

The bolded portion is written by Ron Purewal in MGMAT forums
So i have the following doubt regarding noun placements after prepositions.
In OG 13 Q140 (not typing the question)
how come dated to be 347 billion years old is wrong but dated at 347 billion years is correct?
Am i thinking in the wrong direction?

patanjali.purpose GMAT Destroyer!
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Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:56 pm
souvik101990 wrote:
* "at" is a preposition.
* prepositions must be followed by nouns.
* "xxx number of years old" is not a noun.
so, wrong.

in the other example -- "temperatures estimated at xxxx degrees fahrenheit" -- there's no problem, because "xxxx degrees fahrenheit" is a noun.

i don't think anything else is happening here.
the OG explanations are wrong fairly regularly (though not in most cases); this is one of those times.

The bolded portion is written by Ron Purewal in MGMAT forums
So i have the following doubt regarding noun placements after prepositions.
In OG 13 Q140 (not typing the question)
how come dated to be 347 billion years old is wrong but dated at 347 billion years is correct?
Am i thinking in the wrong direction?
IMO-

TO BE in "to be 347 billion years old" is an INFINITIVE and therefore Ron's thought about AT (a preposition) does not apply here. Also OLD is an adjective (not noun)

dated at 347 billion years (AT = prep; YEARS = noun)

vikram4689 GMAT Titan
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Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:21 am
can you post full ques (2 conflicting options at least)

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vk_vinayak GMAT Destroyer!
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Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:40 am
patanjali.purpose wrote:
mankey wrote:
Dear Experts

Please comment, if the below sentence is correct in GMAT sense:

When Duma deputy Gennady Gudkov left Pushkin Square Monday night, the crowd -- estimated by the police at 14,000 -- was just starting to disperse.

Regards.
The crowd estimated at 14,000 - this is what has happened to Noun (here CROWD).

The crowd estimated to be 14,000 - this is what will happen to Noun (not sensible here as the crowd is already dispersed)

More insight: http://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/estimated-to-be-versus-estimated-at-t7889.html
@Patanjali, can you explain it with bit more details. I am still not sure when to use 'estimated to be' and 'estimated at'. Thanks.

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lunarpower GMAT Instructor
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Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:20 am
souvik101990 wrote:
In OG 13 Q140 (not typing the question)
how come dated to be 347 billion years old is wrong but dated at 347 billion years is correct?
Am i thinking in the wrong direction?
"347 billion years" = noun
"347 billion years old" = not a noun

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Ron is a Director of Curriculum Development at Manhattan GMAT. He has been teaching various standardized tests for almost 20 years.

He wears white after Labor Day, gets 55% of his calories from protein, and takes standardized tests for fun.

Pueden hacerle preguntas a Ron o en inglés o en español.

If you send Ron a private message, please allow 1-2 weeks for a response.

Free Manhattan GMAT online events - The first class of every online Manhattan GMAT course is free. Classes start every week.

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