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Bethelehem Steel

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Kelly Just gettin' started! Default Avatar
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Bethelehem Steel Post Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:51 pm
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  • Lap #[LAPCOUNT] ([LAPTIME])
    The steel industry has changed radically over the last two decades, as large, integrated companies such as Bethlehem Steel once conducted operations from mining at one end of the process to shipping at the other have greatly downsized, or in some cases shut down altogether.

    A. as large, integrated companies such as Bethlehem Steel
    B. as large, integrated companies, such as Bethlehem Steel, that
    C. with large, integrated companies, such as Bethlehem Steel, that
    D. while large, integrated companies, such as Bethlehem Steel, that
    E. and large, integrated companies such as Bethlehem Steel

    OA is
    B
    what's wrong with D ??

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    ketkoag GMAT Destroyer! Default Avatar
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    Post Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:40 pm
    Kelly wrote:
    The steel industry has changed radically over the last two decades, [url]as large, integrated companies such as Bethlehem Steel[/url] once conducted operations from mining at one end of the process to shipping at the other have greatly downsized, or in some cases shut down altogether.

    A. as large, integrated companies such as Bethlehem Steel
    B. as large, integrated companies, such as Bethlehem Steel, that
    C. with large, integrated companies, such as Bethlehem Steel, that
    D. while large, integrated companies, such as Bethlehem Steel, that
    E. and large, integrated companies such as Bethlehem Steel

    OA is
    B
    what's wrong with D ??
    i think we need a reason here why the industry has changed.. so "as" introduces that reason..
    while indicates contrast or sometimes parallel actions..
    eg: Jack spends weekends at the club while Tom stays at home.
    eg: i don't use cell phone while i drive..

    maihuna GMAT Titan Default Avatar
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    Post Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:35 am
    Kelly wrote:
    The steel industry has changed radically over the last two decades, [url]as large, integrated companies such as Bethlehem Steel[/url] once conducted operations from mining at one end of the process to shipping at the other have greatly downsized, or in some cases shut down altogether.

    A. as large, integrated companies such as Bethlehem Steel
    B. as large, integrated companies, such as Bethlehem Steel, that
    C. with large, integrated companies, such as Bethlehem Steel, that
    D. while large, integrated companies, such as Bethlehem Steel, that
    E. and large, integrated companies such as Bethlehem Steel

    OA is
    B
    what's wrong with D ??
    While should have given some sort of simultaneous action, which is not the case here.

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    satish.nagdev Really wants to Beat The GMAT! Default Avatar
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    Post Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:39 am
    I was confused between B and C, can anyone tell why C is wrong?

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    murwz81 Just gettin' started! Default Avatar
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    Post Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:56 am
    Satish,

    I can totally understand why you are confused between B and C. I am sure most of us indians would be confused. I picked C as well. I think B is right in American English. C probably would be right in British English.

    There are certain nuances in American English, which, to us Indians, is a little bit different from what we learnt in school.

    Welcome to my world of confusion with English!!

    loveusonu Really wants to Beat The GMAT!
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    Post Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:41 am
    IMO B, Here is why:

    The steel industry has changed radically over the last two decades, as integrated companies such as Bethlehem Steel, once ...... have greatly downsized, or in some cases shut down altogether.

    A. as large, integrated companies such as Bethlehem Steel -->This would be a RUN ON Sentence as the next part start with Once, we need some pronoun to move ahead with sentence.

    B. as large, integrated companies, such as Bethlehem Steel, that -->Correct we have that to modify+meaning is prefect

    C. with large, integrated companies, such as Bethlehem Steel, that-->with large...have greatly downsized. With doesn't sound a proper pronoun.

    D. while large, integrated companies, such as Bethlehem Steel, that-->same while large..have : Not correct conjuction

    E. and large, integrated companies such as Bethlehem Steel -->and is definately not the best choice of all.

    In all I would say this sentence test appropriate usage of conjuction, which B provides without any other error(as in A)

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    sungoal Rising GMAT Star Default Avatar
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    Post Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:55 am
    Hi,

    Can anybody please explain why options C,D and E are wrong?

    And please explain the use of "with" also .

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    Post Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:42 am
    The steel industry has changed radically over the last two decades, as large and integrated companies such as Bethlehem Steel once conducted operations from mining at one end of the process to shipping at the other have greatly downsized, or in some cases shut down altogether.

    Before I go into the details of Choices C, D, and E, lets first understand the meaning of the original sentence:

    1: FACT = Steel industry has changed significantly
    2: Reason = large and integrated companies have downsized or shut down

    Thus, the sentence presents a reason behind a certain observation or fact. Thus, the correct answer choice should communicate this meaning and be grammatically correct.

    Choice C with the complete sentence.
    The steel industry has changed radically over the last two decades, with large, integrated companies, such as Bethlehem Steel, that once conducted operations from mining at one end of the process to shipping at the other have greatly downsized, or in some cases shut down altogether.

    Now what does this sentence mean? Does this still communicate clearly the reason behind the observation stated? The answer is no. This is because the use of word “with” does not present a reason. Instead, it gives an impression of additional information. Furthermore, it is grammatically incorrect to use “with” in this sentence since it cannot introduce a clause. Thus, this sentence is a fragment since there is no subject for the verbs - have greatly downsized and shut down.

    Choice D is incorrect because it does not communicate the intended meaning. Use of word “while” does not communicate the meaning “reason”. It either states a contrast or a parallel action as noted by @ketkoag above.

    Choice E is incorrect because the word “and” does not communicate the meaning of “reason”. Furthermore, this choice also results in a fragment as Choice A does.

    To summarize, always pay close attention to the meaning that the sentence is supposed to communicate. Then look for the answer choice that communicates that meaning without any grammatical errors. I cannot stress enough the importance of understanding the meaning of the sentence.

    I hope this helps. Please let me know if you have any more concerns.

    Regards,
    Payal Tandon

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    Stuart Kovinsky GMAT Instructor
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    Post Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:23 am
    sungoal wrote:
    Hi,

    Can anybody please explain why options C,D and E are wrong?

    And please explain the use of "with" also .
    Hi,

    as with many long sentences, you want to ignore the irrelevant parts of the sentence when examining each issue. Plugging in the relevant wording from C, we get:

    Quote:
    with large companies... have greatly downsized...
    which just sounds wrong (i.e. it's idiomatically incorrect). Contrary to what one poster offered, this usage is wrong in the UK and India as well as North America.

    On the other hand, it would be OK to say:

    Quote:
    with large companies... greatly downsizing...
    Both "while" and "and" change the meaning of the sentence, so D and E are out.

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    Post Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:39 am
    The steel industry has changed radically over the last two decades, as large, integrated companies such as Bethlehem Steel once conducted operations from mining at one end of the process to shipping at the other have greatly downsized, or in some cases shut down altogether.

    A. as large, integrated companies such as Bethlehem Steel
    B. as large, integrated companies, such as Bethlehem Steel, that

    C, D and E are clearly out for well explained reasons.

    My Question : Why A is not the correct answer ?

    We do not need "that" to proceed with the sentence ?

    The subordinate clause :
    as large, integrated companies such as Bethlehem Steelonce once conducted operations from mining at one end of the process to shipping at the other have greatly downsized, or in some cases shut down altogether.

    Simplified subordinate clause:
    As intergrated companies such as B steel once conducted operation from X to Y have greatly downsized .

    sungoal Rising GMAT Star Default Avatar
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    Post Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:39 am
    e-GMAT wrote:
    The steel industry has changed radically over the last two decades, as large and integrated companies such as Bethlehem Steel once conducted operations from mining at one end of the process to shipping at the other have greatly downsized, or in some cases shut down altogether.

    Before I go into the details of Choices C, D, and E, lets first understand the meaning of the original sentence:

    1: FACT = Steel industry has changed significantly
    2: Reason = large and integrated companies have downsized or shut down

    Thus, the sentence presents a reason behind a certain observation or fact. Thus, the correct answer choice should communicate this meaning and be grammatically correct.

    Choice C with the complete sentence.
    The steel industry has changed radically over the last two decades, with large, integrated companies, such as Bethlehem Steel, that once conducted operations from mining at one end of the process to shipping at the other have greatly downsized, or in some cases shut down altogether.

    Now what does this sentence mean? Does this still communicate clearly the reason behind the observation stated? The answer is no. This is because the use of word “with” does not present a reason. Instead, it gives an impression of additional information. Furthermore, it is grammatically incorrect to use “with” in this sentence since it cannot introduce a clause. Thus, this sentence is a fragment since there is no subject for the verbs - have greatly downsized and shut down.

    Choice D is incorrect because it does not communicate the intended meaning. Use of word “while” does not communicate the meaning “reason”. It either states a contrast or a parallel action as noted by @ketkoag above.

    Choice E is incorrect because the word “and” does not communicate the meaning of “reason”. Furthermore, this choice also results in a fragment as Choice A does.

    To summarize, always pay close attention to the meaning that the sentence is supposed to communicate. Then look for the answer choice that communicates that meaning without any grammatical errors. I cannot stress enough the importance of understanding the meaning of the sentence.

    I hope this helps. Please let me know if you have any more concerns.

    Regards,
    Payal Tandon
    Hi Payal,

    So do you mean to say the word "with" is used to introduce a clause in the sentence?

    And you mentioned that this sentence has no subject, but isnt "large, integrated companies" the subject of the clause introduced by the word "with" ?

    Regards,
    sungoal



    Last edited by sungoal on Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:45 am; edited 1 time in total

    sungoal Rising GMAT Star Default Avatar
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    Post Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:44 am
    Stuart Kovinsky wrote:
    sungoal wrote:
    Hi,

    Can anybody please explain why options C,D and E are wrong?

    And please explain the use of "with" also .
    Hi,

    as with many long sentences, you want to ignore the irrelevant parts of the sentence when examining each issue. Plugging in the relevant wording from C, we get:

    Quote:
    with large companies... have greatly downsized...
    which just sounds wrong (i.e. it's idiomatically incorrect). Contrary to what one poster offered, this usage is wrong in the UK and India as well as North America.

    On the other hand, it would be OK to say:

    Quote:
    with large companies... greatly downsizing...
    Both "while" and "and" change the meaning of the sentence, so D and E are out.
    Hi Stuart,

    Could you please tell me the difference between "and" and ",and" as the option E is using ",and".

    I read somewhere that ",and" is used to introduce the separate clause. According to this, I think ",and" is introducing the clause in the sentence with subject as "large,integrated companies" and verb as "downsized" .

    So could you please tell me whats wrong in this clause here?

    Regards,
    sungoal

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    Post Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:49 am
    To answer your question, let us simplify the sentence into clauses:
    Choice A
    1: The steel industry has changed radically over the last two decades,
    2: as large integrated companies such as Bethlehem Steel once conducted operations from mining at one end of the process to shipping at the other
    3: have greatly downsized, or in some cases shut down altogether.

    As you can see "conducted" is the verb for "companies" and there is no subject for the verbs in Clause 3. Essentially, these verbs also have "companies" as their subject but in the above sentence, this is not apparent.

    This is corrected in the correct choice by adding "that" and hence introducing another clause as shown:

    1: The steel industry has changed radically over the last two decades,
    2: as large integrated companies such as Bethlehem Steel {...clause 3...} have greatly downsized, or in some cases shut down altogether.
    3: that once conducted operations from mining at one end of the process to shipping at the other

    Let me know if this helps.

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    sungoal Rising GMAT Star Default Avatar
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    Post Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:00 pm
    e-GMAT wrote:
    To answer your question, let us simplify the sentence into clauses:
    Choice A
    1: The steel industry has changed radically over the last two decades,
    2: as large integrated companies such as Bethlehem Steel once conducted operations from mining at one end of the process to shipping at the other
    3: have greatly downsized, or in some cases shut down altogether.

    As you can see "conducted" is the verb for "companies" and there is no subject for the verbs in Clause 3. Essentially, these verbs also have "companies" as their subject but in the above sentence, this is not apparent.

    This is corrected in the correct choice by adding "that" and hence introducing another clause as shown:

    1: The steel industry has changed radically over the last two decades,
    2: as large integrated companies such as Bethlehem Steel {...clause 3...} have greatly downsized, or in some cases shut down altogether.
    3: that once conducted operations from mining at one end of the process to shipping at the other

    Let me know if this helps.
    Hi Payal,

    But again my doubt is why there is a doubt regarding the subject of the clause, as the verb "have" is plural, it should refer to plular noun "large,integrated companies" only.

    Could you please explain this?

    Regards,
    sungoal

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    Post Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:14 pm
    Sungoal, I will try to address both your queries using the sentence structure for Choice C

    In choice C, with is used to introduce clause #2. Notice the breakdown below. If this phrase "with large companies" is considered as a part of clause 1, then it will be dangling modifier as it is not clear what it will modify.

    The correct SV pairs are marked as shown.

    1: The steel industry has changed radically over the last two decades,
    2: with large, integrated companies, such as Bethlehem Steel, have greatly downsized, or in some cases shut down altogether.
    3: that once conducted operations from mining at one end of the process to shipping at the other

    The noun "large integrated companies" is not the subject in clause 2 because it lies inside the prepositional phrase starting with "with" and as you know, subjects typically do not reside inside prepositional phrases.

    For more information on subject-verb identification and the rule of prepositional phrases mentioned above, you may refer to the concept titled "Subject-Verb Must Exist" on e-GMAT.com. This is available free of charge for all registered users of e-GMAT.

    Also, typically dependent clauses begin with following categories of words:

    1: Relative Pronouns = which, that, who, whose, etc.
    2: Words that show some kind of linkage
    a) sequencing = while, after, before, when
    b) reason = as, since, because
    c) contrast = even though, although
    Please note that this is not an exhaustive list of dependent markers.

    Let me know if this addresses your queries.

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