Hi All,
I would love to hear your thoughts, as I am seeking advice on how to move forward from here. I started studying for the GMAT around March of this year and used the MGMAT online interactive course, along with their study guides. My Quant is a little inconsistent and my Verbal needs a lot of work. My confidence is a little low when answering Verbal questions; I think this has impacted my performance on the tests. Below are my scores:
1/31 - MGMAT 1 - 480 (Q31/V28)
7/03 - MGMAT 2 - 560 (Q36/V31)
7/30 - MGMAT 3 - 530 (Q39/V24)
8/06 - MGMAT 4 - 590 (Q42/V31)
8/13 - MGMAT 5 - 580 (Q36/V33)
8/20 - MGMAT 6 - 570 (Q36/V32)
8/29 - Real GMAT 1 - 560 (Q37/V31/AWA6/IR3)
9/05 - GMAT Prep 1 - 580 (Q39/V31)
9/11 - GMAT Prep 2 - 590 (Q44/V28)
9/18 - GMAT Prep 3 - 600 (Q40/V32)
9/24 - GMAT Prep 4 - 610 (Q43/V31)
10/01 - Real GMAT 2 - 530 (Q38/V25/IR6)
My observations on Quant:
- DS is much stronger than PS
- PS weakness areas are: Percents, Algebraic Translations, Combinatorics/Probability, and more complex Geometry problems
- Seems like my foundation is decent, but need to close some of the gaps and get more consistent in my Quant performance. I would like to consistently score in the Q44 range.
- I practice all OG questions under timed conditions (2 minutes per problem)
- Timing isn't much of a concern, I usually finish the practice test just in time
My observations on Verbal:
- Initially, CR came very easily, but for some reason switched and now I struggle with this section the most. I need to practice anticipating the answer before reading answer choices. I can usually identify the question type.
- RC, I go back and forth on reading for meaning vs. skimming the passage on the first pass. It seems like reading for meaning helps me the most, but is way more time consuming. I'm 50/50 on all question types: Main Idea, Specific Detail, Inference
- SC, I usually narrow down to 2 remaining answer choices but choose the wrong answer because of a one-off idiom or I miss a subtle sub/verb agreement, etc. This shakes my confidence when selecting SC answers. I usually spend a lot of time on tests wavering between the remaining two answer choices.
- Timing is a huge issue on tests for me. If I don't worry about time, I usually get most of the problems right through #30, but then realize that I only have 10 minutes left after reaching Question #30 and then rush to the end, causing my score to tank. On the flip side, if I'm aware of timing and try to stick to the 1.5-2 minute ballpark, I seem to make silly mistakes and get more questions wrong.
I'm taking 1-2 weeks off from studying and am trying to determine how to go forward from here. E-GMAT and EmpowerGMAT seem appealing, as both have great reviews at a pretty low cost. I also extended my MGMAT online account, so I can re-watch lectures. Additionally, I purchased the PowerScore CR Bible as I've heard good things about it. I will probably stick with MGMAT's Sentence Correction Study Guide and re-do those lessons. I typically read posts in the forums for problems that I get wrong.
My target score is 700 and above. I think that some of my issues are self-inflicted (applying too much pressure, etc.), but I also know that I have some gaps to fill in Quant and Verbal. Anyone have any advice on how to move forward? More specifically, can anyone share their feedback on E-GMAT, Veritas, or EmpowerGMAT? I'm not giving up hope on MGMAT, but I think I could use another perspective on Verbal.
Thanks for your help!
5-Day Free Trial
5-day free, full-access trial TTP
Available with Beat the GMAT members only code
MORE DETAILS
Best test prep course? (E-GMAT, MGMAT, EmpowerGMAT, Veritas)
This topic has expert replies
GMAT/MBA Expert
-
[email protected]
- Elite Legendary Member
- Posts: 10392
- Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:38 pm
- Location: Palo Alto, CA
- Thanked: 2867 times
- Followed by:511 members
- GMAT Score:800
Hi eman11,
GMAC has publicly stated that the Official Score that you earn on Test Day is within about +/- 30 points of actual ability. Assuming a similar 'swing' in how your CATs function, your Official results and CAT score results show that you essentially performed the same general way each time you took a test (+/- a few points). Looking at all of these results, I would say that you currently have a general ability right around the 570 'level.' To raise that to a 700+ will take some considerable time and effort. Furthermore, your scores are so similar over time that you've likely developed some 'bad habits' that will take time to 'fix' (and replace with new 'good habits'). This is all meant to say that you will likely need another 2-3 months of consistent, guided study to hit your goals. If you continue to study in the same ways as you have been studying for the last few months, then you will likely score at the same general level on the Official GMAT.
1) Have you purchased the ESR for this recent Official GMAT?
2) When are you planning to apply to Business School?
3) What Schools are you planning to apply to?
GMAT assassins aren't born, they're made,
Rich
GMAC has publicly stated that the Official Score that you earn on Test Day is within about +/- 30 points of actual ability. Assuming a similar 'swing' in how your CATs function, your Official results and CAT score results show that you essentially performed the same general way each time you took a test (+/- a few points). Looking at all of these results, I would say that you currently have a general ability right around the 570 'level.' To raise that to a 700+ will take some considerable time and effort. Furthermore, your scores are so similar over time that you've likely developed some 'bad habits' that will take time to 'fix' (and replace with new 'good habits'). This is all meant to say that you will likely need another 2-3 months of consistent, guided study to hit your goals. If you continue to study in the same ways as you have been studying for the last few months, then you will likely score at the same general level on the Official GMAT.
1) Have you purchased the ESR for this recent Official GMAT?
2) When are you planning to apply to Business School?
3) What Schools are you planning to apply to?
GMAT assassins aren't born, they're made,
Rich
Hi Rich,
Thanks for your reply. Please see my answers below.
1) Have you purchased the ESR for this recent Official GMAT?
Yes, I purchased ESRs for both tests, here are the results. Let me know if there is any additional detail that would be helpful to evaluate.
- 8/29 - Real GMAT 1 - (Q37/V31)
- Quant: PS = 36/36%, DS = 38/40%, Arithmetic = 37/38%, Algebra/Geometry = 36/36%
- Verbal: CR = 32/61%, RC = 28/51%, SC = 31/59%
- 10/01 - Real GMAT 2 - (Q38/V25)
- Quant: PS = 35/32%, DS = 44/55%, Arithmetic = 39/42%, Algebra/Geometry = 36/36%
- Verbal: CR = 6/5%, RC = 30/58%, SC = 30/57%
I completely agree with you, it seems like my approach to studying/testing needs to change, but I'm not exactly sure how I should pivot from here. Perhaps enrolling in a new test prep course would provide a new perspective on how I should be approaching certain problems (especially verbal)? What are your thoughts?
2) When are you planning to apply to Business School?
I would like to apply for Fall 2017, so at this point it would be R2 applications at best. If I cannot get to an ideal score by that time then I will wait to apply next year.
3) What Schools are you planning to apply to?
Top 15 schools; I know with my scores at the moment that seems like a far stretch, but I know that I have what it takes to get in that score range...I just need to figure out what my bad habits are and improve.
What are your thoughts, Rich?
Thanks for your help!
Thanks for your reply. Please see my answers below.
1) Have you purchased the ESR for this recent Official GMAT?
Yes, I purchased ESRs for both tests, here are the results. Let me know if there is any additional detail that would be helpful to evaluate.
- 8/29 - Real GMAT 1 - (Q37/V31)
- Quant: PS = 36/36%, DS = 38/40%, Arithmetic = 37/38%, Algebra/Geometry = 36/36%
- Verbal: CR = 32/61%, RC = 28/51%, SC = 31/59%
- 10/01 - Real GMAT 2 - (Q38/V25)
- Quant: PS = 35/32%, DS = 44/55%, Arithmetic = 39/42%, Algebra/Geometry = 36/36%
- Verbal: CR = 6/5%, RC = 30/58%, SC = 30/57%
I completely agree with you, it seems like my approach to studying/testing needs to change, but I'm not exactly sure how I should pivot from here. Perhaps enrolling in a new test prep course would provide a new perspective on how I should be approaching certain problems (especially verbal)? What are your thoughts?
2) When are you planning to apply to Business School?
I would like to apply for Fall 2017, so at this point it would be R2 applications at best. If I cannot get to an ideal score by that time then I will wait to apply next year.
3) What Schools are you planning to apply to?
Top 15 schools; I know with my scores at the moment that seems like a far stretch, but I know that I have what it takes to get in that score range...I just need to figure out what my bad habits are and improve.
What are your thoughts, Rich?
Thanks for your help!
GMAT/MBA Expert
-
[email protected]
- Elite Legendary Member
- Posts: 10392
- Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:38 pm
- Location: Palo Alto, CA
- Thanked: 2867 times
- Followed by:511 members
- GMAT Score:800
Hi eman11,
You seem to have a proper understanding of your situation and ultimate goals, which is good. While it would take a lot of work, you could potential hit your goal score before the Round 2 application deadlines - but you will have to be efficient with every aspect of this process (and you might have to work on your applications while you study).
While the ESR doesn't provide that much information, I'd still like to see the full ESR for your more recent GMAT. If you'd rather not post it publicly, then you can feel free to PM me the report and I'll offer the appropriate advice based on those results.
GMAT assassins aren't born, they're made,
Rich
You seem to have a proper understanding of your situation and ultimate goals, which is good. While it would take a lot of work, you could potential hit your goal score before the Round 2 application deadlines - but you will have to be efficient with every aspect of this process (and you might have to work on your applications while you study).
While the ESR doesn't provide that much information, I'd still like to see the full ESR for your more recent GMAT. If you'd rather not post it publicly, then you can feel free to PM me the report and I'll offer the appropriate advice based on those results.
GMAT assassins aren't born, they're made,
Rich
GMAT/MBA Expert
-
ceilidh.erickson
- GMAT Instructor
- Posts: 2095
- Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:22 pm
- Thanked: 1443 times
- Followed by:247 members
Admittedly my position is biased (I really think my company is amazing!), but I don't think you'd necessarily get much value out of switching prep resources. I would also give the same advice to someone considering switching from another company to Manhattan Prep!
Here's why: the material tested on the GMAT is finite. All major prep companies are going to address the same quant and grammar rules. Their explanations might vary, but the content does not. There is sometimes value in hearing the same ideas in a different voice, but I don't really think that's the issue for you.
When I see students whose scores plateau even after repeated tests, my suspicion is that the issue isn't content - it's technique.
You say that PS is much weaker than DS. Strong DS indicates good conceptual understanding. Weak PS indicates poor execution. So here's what you do:
1. Start tracking your errors obsessively! Know what kinds of mistakes you make over and over, and start instituting changes in your process to fix them. https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/blog ... -studying/
2. PUT THE PEN DOWN! This is the most important advice I can give to students who want to improve PS in particular. Use common sense, define the question, eliminate answers, and think about your strategy all before you pick up the pen: https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/blog ... -pen-down/
3. Practice thinking like an expert - use backsolving, picking smart numbers, and estimation: https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/blog ... m-solving/
4. Spend more time reviewing than doing. You've seen hundreds of problems at this point. Seeing a few hundred more isn't going to make a difference if you don't fundamentally change your approach. The best thing to do at this point is to spend time deeply dissecting all the problems you've done - right and wrong - and look for patterns in the way they ask questions, in your answers, etc. Don't take a new practice test until you think you've strengthened your technique in at least one area.
Good luck!
Here's why: the material tested on the GMAT is finite. All major prep companies are going to address the same quant and grammar rules. Their explanations might vary, but the content does not. There is sometimes value in hearing the same ideas in a different voice, but I don't really think that's the issue for you.
When I see students whose scores plateau even after repeated tests, my suspicion is that the issue isn't content - it's technique.
You say that PS is much weaker than DS. Strong DS indicates good conceptual understanding. Weak PS indicates poor execution. So here's what you do:
1. Start tracking your errors obsessively! Know what kinds of mistakes you make over and over, and start instituting changes in your process to fix them. https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/blog ... -studying/
2. PUT THE PEN DOWN! This is the most important advice I can give to students who want to improve PS in particular. Use common sense, define the question, eliminate answers, and think about your strategy all before you pick up the pen: https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/blog ... -pen-down/
3. Practice thinking like an expert - use backsolving, picking smart numbers, and estimation: https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/blog ... m-solving/
4. Spend more time reviewing than doing. You've seen hundreds of problems at this point. Seeing a few hundred more isn't going to make a difference if you don't fundamentally change your approach. The best thing to do at this point is to spend time deeply dissecting all the problems you've done - right and wrong - and look for patterns in the way they ask questions, in your answers, etc. Don't take a new practice test until you think you've strengthened your technique in at least one area.
Good luck!
Ceilidh Erickson
EdM in Mind, Brain, and Education
Harvard Graduate School of Education
EdM in Mind, Brain, and Education
Harvard Graduate School of Education
Thank you, Rich! I will send you a PM with the ESR information.
Hi Ceilidh,
Thank you for your advice regarding PS. Yes, I started error logging like crazy and noticed that I usually make very simple arithmetic mistakes on half of the PS questions that I get incorrect. I also tend to freeze up on medium-hard Percent PS problems as well, so those are things that I definitely need to work on.
As far as Verbal goes, do you have any technique advice there? Perhaps I need to go back to the foundations and plug gaps from there.
Thank you!
Hi Ceilidh,
Thank you for your advice regarding PS. Yes, I started error logging like crazy and noticed that I usually make very simple arithmetic mistakes on half of the PS questions that I get incorrect. I also tend to freeze up on medium-hard Percent PS problems as well, so those are things that I definitely need to work on.
As far as Verbal goes, do you have any technique advice there? Perhaps I need to go back to the foundations and plug gaps from there.
Thank you!
Last edited by eman11 on Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
GMAT/MBA Expert
-
ceilidh.erickson
- GMAT Instructor
- Posts: 2095
- Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:22 pm
- Thanked: 1443 times
- Followed by:247 members
A lot of the same advice holds true for verbal:
- track your mistakes
- do more reviewing than doing
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said "I need to anticipate the answer before reading answer choices." This is the most important way to avoid falling into traps!
You can practice this skill specifically: do a set of CR or RC problems where you read the question, read the argument, anticipate the answer... then move onto the next problem without even looking at the answer choices. Reinforce the idea that figuring out the logic of the argument and coming up with your own answer are the important skills, not picking out the right answer choice.
For SC, try a similar approach - read the sentences and try to identify all of the signifiers of the commonly tested topics: modifiers, parallelism, comparisons, subject/verb, etc. Without looking at the answer choices, try to answer the question "what rules is the test writer testing here?"
- track your mistakes
- do more reviewing than doing
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said "I need to anticipate the answer before reading answer choices." This is the most important way to avoid falling into traps!
You can practice this skill specifically: do a set of CR or RC problems where you read the question, read the argument, anticipate the answer... then move onto the next problem without even looking at the answer choices. Reinforce the idea that figuring out the logic of the argument and coming up with your own answer are the important skills, not picking out the right answer choice.
For SC, try a similar approach - read the sentences and try to identify all of the signifiers of the commonly tested topics: modifiers, parallelism, comparisons, subject/verb, etc. Without looking at the answer choices, try to answer the question "what rules is the test writer testing here?"
Ceilidh Erickson
EdM in Mind, Brain, and Education
Harvard Graduate School of Education
EdM in Mind, Brain, and Education
Harvard Graduate School of Education
Thanks for your quick reply, Ceilidh!
I do tend to read the question stem and then directly scan the answer choices for things that pop out, so this technique seems like it will definitely help me stay focused and avoid potential traps. I will give it a shot and try to stay disciplined with it.
Thank you again for your help!
I do tend to read the question stem and then directly scan the answer choices for things that pop out, so this technique seems like it will definitely help me stay focused and avoid potential traps. I will give it a shot and try to stay disciplined with it.
Thank you again for your help!
GMAT/MBA Expert
-
[email protected]
- Elite Legendary Member
- Posts: 10392
- Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:38 pm
- Location: Palo Alto, CA
- Thanked: 2867 times
- Followed by:511 members
- GMAT Score:800
Hi eman11,
I received your ESR and sent you back some notes/suggestions.
GMAT assassins aren't born, they're made,
Rich
I received your ESR and sent you back some notes/suggestions.
GMAT assassins aren't born, they're made,
Rich
GMAT/MBA Expert
-
Bara
- GMAT Instructor
- Posts: 383
- Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:20 pm
- Location: Online Conferencing - in person in select cities.
- Thanked: 55 times
- Followed by:21 members
Another way to go about doing this and to add to our box-o-tools.
Instead of anticipating an answer...go in KNOWING the answer, and talk through why it is correct and why all the other answer choices are incorrect. This will begin to give you - -and eventually, 360-degrees of understanding what makes a 'least wrong' and 'best' answer choice, as well as why other answer choices are flat out, wrong.
Some test takers LOVE this way of doing things. I encourage you to try it.
Second, it's very easy for many test prep resources to speak of certain types of answers as absolute, ie. 'when you see 'being' in an answer choice, that answer will be wrong'. This, unfortunately, is not always correct. There are exceptions as to when 'being' in an answer choice can be correct...Find the materials that support exceptions. This will help you finely tune your efforts, and help you reach the highest score in your range. I know, for example, that our Sentence Correction book includes exceptions, so if someone were to ground themselves in everything we've included, they have an optimal chance of scoring in the highest percentiles on these types of questions.
Good luck!
Instead of anticipating an answer...go in KNOWING the answer, and talk through why it is correct and why all the other answer choices are incorrect. This will begin to give you - -and eventually, 360-degrees of understanding what makes a 'least wrong' and 'best' answer choice, as well as why other answer choices are flat out, wrong.
Some test takers LOVE this way of doing things. I encourage you to try it.
Second, it's very easy for many test prep resources to speak of certain types of answers as absolute, ie. 'when you see 'being' in an answer choice, that answer will be wrong'. This, unfortunately, is not always correct. There are exceptions as to when 'being' in an answer choice can be correct...Find the materials that support exceptions. This will help you finely tune your efforts, and help you reach the highest score in your range. I know, for example, that our Sentence Correction book includes exceptions, so if someone were to ground themselves in everything we've included, they have an optimal chance of scoring in the highest percentiles on these types of questions.
Good luck!
Bara Sapir, MA, CHt, CNLP
Founder/CEO City Test Prep
Maximize your Score, Minimize your Stress!
GMAT Badass and Test Anxiety Relief Expert
SPEEDREADING: https://citytestprep.com/mindflow-workshops/
ANXIETY RELIEF: https://citytestprep.com/mindfulness-therapy/
BOOK: https://tinyurl.com/TPNYSC
TV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McA4aqCNS-c
Founder/CEO City Test Prep
Maximize your Score, Minimize your Stress!
GMAT Badass and Test Anxiety Relief Expert
SPEEDREADING: https://citytestprep.com/mindflow-workshops/
ANXIETY RELIEF: https://citytestprep.com/mindfulness-therapy/
BOOK: https://tinyurl.com/TPNYSC
TV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McA4aqCNS-c
