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real2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:08 am    Post subject: 27 Reply with quote
In June, 1981, six teenagers in the village of Medjugorje, Yugoslavia, claimed to have had visions of the Virgin Mary, who they say has continued to appear to them over the ensuing years.
(A) claimed to have had visions of the Virgin Mary, who
(B) claimed to have visions of the Virgin Mary, whom
(C) claimed to have had visions of the Virgin Mary, whom
(D) claimed to have visions of the Virgin Mary, who
(E) had claimed to have had visions of the Virgin Mary, whom

why not D?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:42 am    Post subject: IMO Reply with quote
IMO A, past perfect claimed to have had, and who is correct
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:18 pm    Post subject: Re: IMO Reply with quote
kc_raj wrote:
IMO A, past perfect claimed to have had, and who is correct


Kindly tell why "whom" is wrong here.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:20 pm    Post subject: Re: IMO Reply with quote
kc_raj wrote:
IMO A, past perfect claimed to have had, and who is correct


if we choose past perfect...then it tells that....at the point of claim....the vision ceased to exist....

isn't it....

but shouldn't it be like that....at the time of claim...they were possessing that particular quality.....

Last edited by goelmohit2002 on Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:11 pm    Post subject: Re: IMO Reply with quote
goelmohit2002 wrote:
kc_raj wrote:
IMO A, past perfect claimed to have had, and who is correct


Kindly tell why "whom" is wrong here.


Who is used to refer to the subject of a sentence and whom is used to refer to the object of the sentence..
Example: I embraced xyz. xyz is the object "whom" I embraced. I am the subject of this sentence.
So who embraced xyz? I
and whom did I embrace? xyz

In the above sentence, you just have to ask the question: WHO continued to appear to them over the ensuing years?
Answer is Virgin Mary and so we need to use "who"
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:07 pm    Post subject: Re: IMO Reply with quote
dumb.doofus wrote:
goelmohit2002 wrote:
kc_raj wrote:
IMO A, past perfect claimed to have had, and who is correct


Kindly tell why "whom" is wrong here.


Who is used to refer to the subject of a sentence and whom is used to refer to the object of the sentence..
Example: I embraced xyz. xyz is the object "whom" I embraced. I am the subject of this sentence.
So who embraced xyz? I
and whom did I embrace? xyz

In the above sentence, you just have to ask the question: WHO continued to appear to them over the ensuing years?
Answer is Virgin Mary and so we need to use "who"


Thanks dumb.doofus.

But if we see the previous sentence:

"Teenagers claimed to have visions of Virgin Mary, who....."

Here isn't Teenagers = subject.
Visions of Mary = object.

Then why are we using "who" to refer to the part of the object....i.e. "Virgin Mary" and not whom....since subject is Teenagers in the previous clause.

Please help me understand what i am missing here.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I thingk D is correct because there is not logic to use perfect here.

use "who" because "who" is subject of relative clause although it is object of previous clause.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
duongthang wrote:
use "who" because "who" is subject of relative clause although it is object of previous clause.


Hi duongthang,

Sorry, I could not get this.....

Isn't the subject of relative clause "they" ?

They say XYZ...

Please tell if I am misinterpreting you.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:31 am    Post subject: Re: IMO Reply with quote
goelmohit2002 wrote:
dumb.doofus wrote:
goelmohit2002 wrote:
kc_raj wrote:
IMO A, past perfect claimed to have had, and who is correct


Kindly tell why "whom" is wrong here.


Who is used to refer to the subject of a sentence and whom is used to refer to the object of the sentence..
Example: I embraced xyz. xyz is the object "whom" I embraced. I am the subject of this sentence.
So who embraced xyz? I
and whom did I embrace? xyz

In the above sentence, you just have to ask the question: WHO continued to appear to them over the ensuing years?
Answer is Virgin Mary and so we need to use "who"


Thanks dumb.doofus.

But if we see the previous sentence:

"Teenagers claimed to have visions of Virgin Mary, who....."

Here isn't Teenagers = subject.
Visions of Mary = object.

Then why are we using "who" to refer to the part of the object....i.e. "Virgin Mary" and not whom....since subject is Teenagers in the previous clause.

Please help me understand what i am missing here.


Please understand that you have to consider the part of the sentence in which the word "who" or "whom" is used. For that part of the sentence i.e. clause, you need to apply the rule.

There's another way you can decide whether to use who or whom. Use the he/him method to decide which word is correct.
he = who
him = whom

Let's, for the sake of understanding and applying the above rule, replace virgin mary with Jesus Christ.

So just ask the question:
Who/whom appeared to them over the ensuing years?
Answer: He. So use who. You don't say, "him appeared".

Hope the above makes it clear.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks dumb.doofus

Just small query. How to reach to answer "D" in the following question#194 of OG-10.

Presenters at the seminar, one who is blind, will demonstrate adaptive equipment that allows visually impaired people to use computers.
(A) one who
(B) one of them who
(C) and one of them who
(D) one of whom
(E) one of which
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
in "one of whom" whom is correct because it it object tive case after preposition (another kind of object case is after verb object)

I want to note this sentence

I like whoever (not whomever) take gmat

here whoever is correct because total clause after "like" is object .not only the work after like is object. pls, note this

regards.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
duongthang wrote:
in "one of whom" whom is correct because it it object tive case after preposition (another kind of object case is after verb object)

I want to note this sentence

I like whoever (not whomever) take gmat

here whoever is correct because total clause after "like" is object .not only the work after like is object. pls, note this

regards.


But who = used to describe subject
who = used to describe objects.

Moroever he/him test also does not look to be yielding us to one of whom...

Can someone please give detailed reasoning to reach to answer D.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
Kindly tell why "whom" is wrong here.


I give you the way I approach when confused between who/whom

replace who/ whom with
1. he/she/ they
2. him/ her/ them

now read the sentence after replacing.
If (1) makes sense=>Who
if (2) makes sense =>whom


Quote:
Presenters at the seminar, one who is blind, will demonstrate adaptive equipment that allows visually impaired people to use computers.
(A) one who
(B) one of them who
(C) and one of them who
(D) one of whom
(E) one of which




1. Presenters at the seminar, one he is blind, will demonstrate adaptive equipment that allows visually impaired people to use computers.

Does this makes sense to you!

2. Presenters at the seminar, one them is blind, will demonstrate adaptive equipment that allows visually impaired people to use computers.



But here is the thing.

Look (2) does makes sense if we just modify the pharse "one them" to "one of them"

2. Presenters at the seminar, one of them is blind, will demonstrate adaptive equipment that allows visually impaired people to use computers.


Now you can easily replace "them" with whom.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Awesome man.

Can you please tell how to kick out B based on this....

i..e "one of them who"
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi Karan,

can you please help to understand to apply this strategy in the original question under discussion.
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